First Kit! HD-28

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tippie53
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Re: First Kit! HD-28

Post by tippie53 »

The water lacquers have become much better in the last few years . As stated above finish is all about prep and patience. I am sure you will have some fun with this .
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
David L
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Re: First Kit! HD-28

Post by David L »

If your reluctance to spray is because of lack of expensive fancy spray equipment, I would reccomend rattle can nitro, lots of people on the forum use it (including myself) and many a fine finishes have been applied with it.

David L
tippie53
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Re: First Kit! HD-28

Post by tippie53 »

Behlen , and Jet are sold through Grizzly .
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Behlen- ... Kit/T21176
this is as complete kit as I have seen
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
johnnparchem
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Re: First Kit! HD-28

Post by johnnparchem »

I agree with John. I am finally getting his words (and you will hear them often) about finishing is all about prep and patience. The quality of the finish is really the prep before any finish is put on. So far I have put a different finish on each and every instrument I made. I have been happy with the results of all of the products.
I like French polish for my classical guitars. My second classical guitar was finished with Ubeaut hard shellac over a Zpoxy fill. Supposedly it is a bar ready finish so it would be suitable for a steel string guitar. I find that it is a slightly different look than I get from lacquer. I can get the FP to be really shiny but optically it looks like a thinner finish (maybe it is) that my lacquered finishes.
I used rattle can Nitro for one guitar and got nice results; unfortunately while I was spraying outside on the ground level of our house, my wife was upstairs with an office door open. To be clear it was nearly the end of my hobby, the stuff really smells. But nitro is a dream to work with.
I used Stewmac ‘s ColorTone water based lacquer (Targetcoatings EM6000) which I found easy to work with and have been happy with the results. I sprayed it but they also sell a retarder, so you could brush it on. I plan to stay with this finish for my next steel string guitar.
I used KTM-SV and got a really good looking finish. This is a water based spar varnish. It was the hardest to work with a really fine line between not enough finish sprayed to level and too much to drip and\or sag. Also the prep needs to be nearly perfect as each coat does not melt in to the previous coat. Thus the final sanding needs to stay in the final coat or you will get witness lines. I had one small area that I sanded into the second to last coat. The witness lines mostly buffed out but I can find them if I look. Prep work would have helped here; it is a lot easier to spray or brush a level coat of finish on a level surface.
msanch24

Re: First Kit! HD-28

Post by msanch24 »

Thanks for all the info and wisdom, gents.

I'm unable to use spray because of my living situation. I can't even begin to imagine the complaints I'd receive from my neighbors in the apartment complex if I sprayed nitro. And also, I just generally like the purist approach of french polish. I have read that its a beautiful finish when applied right, and it allows the wood to retain its vibration characteristics, but it is less of a protector against physical harm like picks, fingernails, etc.

My worst fear is that I spend months getting this guitar how I want it, only to apply some thick, muting finish. I like french polish for its additive method, versus the deductive method of the others. Tru-oil is still something to consider, but I also believe that french polish, while being much more work, would turn out better in the long run (provided I practice and hone that skill prior to finishing this guitar).

Needless to say, even though it is my very first kit (and wood working project for that matter), I plan on researching every step of the way and cutting ZERO corners.

/end ramble.

-Matt
tippie53
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Re: First Kit! HD-28

Post by tippie53 »

the water lacquer are user friendly can can be brushed as can shellac. You have french polish and tru oil . Lots of time to think about finish but to get to finish first you must finish
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
Jim_H
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Location: Bothell, WA USA

Re: First Kit! HD-28

Post by Jim_H »

I am in the process of testing several 'neighbor friendly' finishes.

I just got some scraps of spruce, mahogany, and Indian Rosewood and glued them to some panels, and went to town. I've tried a few different pore filling options (Pumice and Tru-Oil Slurry), and plan to try a few more on the next samples.

I'm focusing on tru-oil and French Polish for the time being, as I already have the supplies for them on hand. I may try a few others depending on how I like the results.

I'm mainly looking for an easy inexpensive and efficient finish I can apply to some prototypes I'm going to build.

If you don't mind the manual labor involved in the French Polish process, and are able to refine the process to get good results, it's ideal really (especially if you like doing it).

The knock on it is that it's a lot of work (subjective), it doesn't necessarily result in that deep glossy finish you see on Nitro or Poly sprayed guitars (again, somewhat subjective), and it's not as durable as a hard nitro or poly finish (not that subjective).

If you are making the guitar for yourself, your French Polish repairs are easy enough, which is good, because you'll probably be making touch ups fairly frequently, depending on how hard you are on the instrument.
My poorly maintained "Blog"
msanch24

Re: First Kit! HD-28

Post by msanch24 »

John - I definitely acknowledge the mountain of work and learning I have before finishing comes into play.

Jim - I'd love to see pictures of those samples when they're done. That would be an awesome reference for me (and probably everyone else).

Thanks for the help so far. Got my Titebond today and a few things to make a work surface with. Just need a couple other things to get started.

-Matt
David L
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Re: First Kit! HD-28

Post by David L »

If i'm not mistaken, French Polish offers the least protection and is high maintainance.

David L
johnnparchem
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Re: First Kit! HD-28

Post by johnnparchem »

David L wrote:If i'm not mistaken, French Polish offers the least protection and is high maintainance.

David L
I would say easiest to maintain. I few more FP sessions and it is good as new. Regular shellac is a good finish, it might not hold up at a bar with drinks set on it, but treated right the finish will protect the guitar for decades.
My new classical was French polished with ubeaut hard shellac. It has some cross linking stuff in it that makes it really hard in about 10 days. In any case I have a 15 year old French polished guitars that looks great.
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