14 fret to body vs 12 fret

[naccoachbob]

What is the difference between a 12 fret to the body and 14 fret to the body? Why would you choose one over the other?
Also, just off the top of my head, it seems a 12 fret on a dreadnought wouldn't look so good? Or would it?
Thanks,
Bob

[tippie53]

the building style is the same and while 14 frets are more popular I do like a nice 000 12 freter.

[JJDonohue]

About half of my guitars are 12 Frets...00-12, 000-12 and more recently slope-shouldered 6 & 12 String models. To me they offer a more resonant and sweeter-sounding alternative...especially for finger-style playing. Many accomplished players, however find the more limited access to the upper frets to be a disadvantage, however. So like many decisions in life...and guitars...there are trade-offs.

The main feature besides the shorter neck is where the bridge location resides. Since the body join is at the 12th fret, it then results in the bridge having to be moved south by about 1/2"...the equivalent distance of fret 12 through fret 14. That bridge location then happens to be closer to the MIDDLE of the lower bout which seems to create a more efficient location to get the soundboard vibrating.

I haven't figured out how to post pics yet so check out the following:

http://www.donohueguitars.com/component ... ia-gallery

http://www.donohueguitars.com/component ... -12-string

http://www.donohueguitars.com/component ... 00-12-fret

[tippie53]

JJ
Posting pictures is now a snap Below the input box you will see 2 tabs , one says option and one upload attachment . Click on the upload tab and the browse tab pops up so you can just enter the file you need at that point. Give it a try

[JJDonohue]

OK...here goes with some pics... This is a 000-12 with Quilted Sapele and Adirondack Spruce

007- Zootman 008 600x800.jpg

007- Zootman 005 600x800.jpg

007- Zootman 002 600x800.jpg

[JJDonohue]

Here's a Slope-shouldered Dred with a soundport...Cocobolo and Lutz Spruce

011 - Aurelia 003 600x800.jpg

011 - Aurelia 009 600x800.jpg

011 - Aurelia 008 800x600.jpg

[Freeman]

The differences are both very simple and rather complex. One of the things that adds to the confusion is that Martin isn't consistant about what they build - but lets try to summarize the differences as I understand them.

First, lets forget scale length for a while and start with gut strung guitars back in the 1800's and early 1900. They were classically (pun intended) 12 frets clear of the body and basically a size very close to what we would call a double ought (00). Here is a Hauser copy classical and my 000 - you can see the similar body shapes



Martin, Washburn and the others who were starting to build guitars "braced for steel strings" built similar bodies - 12 frets clear and 0, 00, and 000 sizes. When they built the first OM they wanted to give the players better access to the frets around 12 so the kind of pushed the upper bout down to the 14th fret (or in the case of Gibson, the 13th on a couple of models). They didn't move the neck, they simply shortened the body. You can see that when you compaer my 14 fret OM 12 string with the 12 fret 000



Notice how the upper bout on the OM has been flattened down to the 14th fret. The effects of that change on sound are probably pretty subtle - in theory you would have a slightly smaller air volume and a slightly reduced surface area of the upper bout (which probably has very little affect on the sound).

In theory also, you could build either body style with any scale length you want - start your layout at the 12th fret (whether it is at the body joint or not), make the neck the right length to put the nut at 1/2 the scale length, and locate the bridge where it needs to be. In practice, using a longer scale will tend to move the bridge more into the center of the lower bout (on a small body like an 0 it moves it past center). As JJ says, that has a big affect on sound - think of hitting a drum head in the center or closer to the rim. The other affect of scale length is string tension of course, shorter scale has less tension, is easier to fret and bend and some people feel has a bluesier sound. Longer is probably better for downtuning.

Going back to the OM 12 and 000 sixer - the 12 is short scale and the 000 is long - you can see the difference in the location of the bridge/saddle. To carry that to an extreme, here is the OM 12 once again along side my very long scale (26.2) 000 12 string. The body on that was built in the same mold as the 000 six, but the the scale length is almost an inch longer. That one was designed from the beginning for very phat strings and very low tuning - it is currently 4 half steps down from concert (C) and has a roar unlike anything else you'll ever play



You can really see how far the bridge has been moved down. Notice also that the necks are almost the same length but there are less frets and greater distance between them on the one on the right (some pretty long pinkie reaches on some chords).

Like I said, Martin confuses the heck out of things by combining different scale lengths, neck widths and body sizes - here is a summary of some of them

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.y ... topic/5309

And last, Martin, Gibson and others have built some great 12 fret dreads - they are fondly known as "slope shoulder" - they frequently have wider necks with slotted headstocks - the D28S, D12-20 and 35 and JJ's beautiful work are good examples.

[Ken Hundley]

Oh man, JJ, I just drooled on my keyboard!

[naccoachbob]

Freeman, thanks so much, very good explanation.
Much appreciated.
Bob

[Freeman]

Let me just add some thoughts about playability. Obviously you loose easy access to frets about 12, but very few of us spend much time up there anyway. If you do, you are probably a candidate for a cutaway (and you probably aren't playing classic blues). If you capo a lot and move up the neck, once again, you might want more frets clear to start with.

Remember that as you move above 12 you start dealing with intonation issues and all the other problems - IMHO most of us are perfectly happy playing up to that point and not much higher. Classical guitarist deal with 12 frets clear just fine, and as a slide player, I am constantly bumping into the body on my 12 fretters (actually that becomes a reference point).

I love the old timey look of 12 fret slot heads - sure there are building and stringing hassles but they have a lot more mojo. While this isn't a hard rule, most 12 fretters have 1-3/4 nuts and wider saddle spacing (and often flatter fretboards) - as a finger style player both of those are my perference (obviously if you are building you can make it anything you want).

Should be clear that I like 'em a lot.