First Build Advice - Too Ambitious?
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ngerty
First Build Advice - Too Ambitious?
Hello,I just registered and this is my first post! I really would like to build my own acoustic guitar. I'm 16 and play my Martin a lot, but my dad (who also plays) and I would like to build one at some point. I tend to want only the best of the best when it comes to material items. That's why I can't get this Martin D35 Brazilian Rosewood B
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tippie53
- Posts: 7016
- Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:09 pm
- Location: Hegins, Pa
- Contact:
Re: First Build Advice - Too Ambitious?
Building a guitar is a bit more complicated than you may think . I would love to see you do it but lets get you some more information. Let us know what tools you have , and do not expect your first guitar to be your best. You need many different skills and some tooling to accomplish this. Finishing can also be done but know the hazards of the different finishing materials and finish processes.
First you need a mold , and you will also need lots of clamps . I think the best advice is start with a kit. Read as much as you can but being inexperienced you will have a hard time gleaning what is good and was is bad information . There are a few different styles of building. So that we can help you , let us know what you have and we can help get you started.
Where do you live ? you may be able to find a mentor near you that can help. I think this is a terrific Father Son project . I am sure Ken Ceip will chime in with advice also. There are plenty of builders here and we want to see you give this a try.
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc.
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
First you need a mold , and you will also need lots of clamps . I think the best advice is start with a kit. Read as much as you can but being inexperienced you will have a hard time gleaning what is good and was is bad information . There are a few different styles of building. So that we can help you , let us know what you have and we can help get you started.
Where do you live ? you may be able to find a mentor near you that can help. I think this is a terrific Father Son project . I am sure Ken Ceip will chime in with advice also. There are plenty of builders here and we want to see you give this a try.
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc.
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
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naccoachbob
- Posts: 477
- Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:25 am
- Location: Nacogdoches, Tx
Re: First Build Advice - Too Ambitious?
Ngerty, I have to agree with your dad and John on this. Now, I'm way older than you, but when it comes to kit guitars, I'm about the same age as you mentally. I want the best, and I want it now.
Fortunately, I bought a Stewmac kit for my first one. That was before the bug that just bit you had bitten me. I'm glad I did. Even though I did a pretty good job on it, I made a lot of mistakes. You will too. All of us did. I promise you that if you build with a kit with just regular wood, you will astonish yourself when it's completed. It will truly rock your world.
Then, you take that Brazilian Rosewood and the Adirondack top and you make one even better.
But either way you go, exercise a lot of patience on every step. Read all you can on each step and rehearse it until you're positive you've got it.
John Hall of Blues Creek Guitars and Ken Cierp of Kenneth Michaels Guitars can both sell you kits that have very high quality woods in them. They will even help you customize one. Guitars you will be proud to own and say you built. And with better prices and service than the big stores will give you. I've emailed them both and been on the phone with John about different things involved in building. They're great guys.
Like I said, I'm 60 years old, but when it comes to this stuff, I'm 16 again - it a Peter Pan thing. My "Killer" guitar will be my 4th. My first is for me, the 2nd is for my Daughter, and the 3rd will be for my Son. But that 4th one is gonna be blinged out and sound like a million bucks.
Welcome to the forum and good luck with building. When you start one, start a topic and post pictures and tell us the story as it goes along.
Bob
Fortunately, I bought a Stewmac kit for my first one. That was before the bug that just bit you had bitten me. I'm glad I did. Even though I did a pretty good job on it, I made a lot of mistakes. You will too. All of us did. I promise you that if you build with a kit with just regular wood, you will astonish yourself when it's completed. It will truly rock your world.
Then, you take that Brazilian Rosewood and the Adirondack top and you make one even better.
But either way you go, exercise a lot of patience on every step. Read all you can on each step and rehearse it until you're positive you've got it.
John Hall of Blues Creek Guitars and Ken Cierp of Kenneth Michaels Guitars can both sell you kits that have very high quality woods in them. They will even help you customize one. Guitars you will be proud to own and say you built. And with better prices and service than the big stores will give you. I've emailed them both and been on the phone with John about different things involved in building. They're great guys.
Like I said, I'm 60 years old, but when it comes to this stuff, I'm 16 again - it a Peter Pan thing. My "Killer" guitar will be my 4th. My first is for me, the 2nd is for my Daughter, and the 3rd will be for my Son. But that 4th one is gonna be blinged out and sound like a million bucks.
Welcome to the forum and good luck with building. When you start one, start a topic and post pictures and tell us the story as it goes along.
Bob
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ngerty
Re: First Build Advice - Too Ambitious?
Well, I took the advice of my dad and ordered a standard Martin Dreadnought (Rosewood) kit from musiciansfriend.com. I have to say thought I regret not purchasing from the Blues Creek Guitars Website. I just didn't think of it when I made the purchase. I kind of want to cancel my order and do that now...
Anyway, I'm excited about doing this. I think I am going to do most of the work but he'll definitely help me out when my skills and knowledge aren't enough. I set up a shop area in my basement with some work tables and spent the evening building a jig out of some wood we had lying around. I traced my guitar's profile on the wood and cut that out with a jig-saw. It's about 2 or 2.5 inches deep and fairly accurate to the shape of the guitar. Once I get the kit I'll refine it with the actual sides as a guide. Do the sides need any reshaping/ further shaping? I read that I should clamp them into the jig with a spacing device and leave the wood to acclimate for a week. Is this necessary?
My dad has a lot of tools. Plenty of saws, chisels, clamps, clues, finishes, etc. I don't think he has everything I need, but I definitely have more at my disposal than someone typically would. For sure.
I don't wan't to have to buy a lot of fancy equipment, but I'm willing to get the specialized tools I'll need. I think I'm going to buy Bill Cory's book and see what I can glean from that (plenty, I'm sure). I'll take things step by step...
What materials can I use for inlays besides abalone and pearl? I don't want to buy a bunch of that if I don't have to. I'm thinking copper might look cool. Just an idea... I would fancy-up the guitar if I'm able. I wan't to inlay my last name on the headstock though for sure...
-Neil
P.S. I live in Bethel, CT
Anyway, I'm excited about doing this. I think I am going to do most of the work but he'll definitely help me out when my skills and knowledge aren't enough. I set up a shop area in my basement with some work tables and spent the evening building a jig out of some wood we had lying around. I traced my guitar's profile on the wood and cut that out with a jig-saw. It's about 2 or 2.5 inches deep and fairly accurate to the shape of the guitar. Once I get the kit I'll refine it with the actual sides as a guide. Do the sides need any reshaping/ further shaping? I read that I should clamp them into the jig with a spacing device and leave the wood to acclimate for a week. Is this necessary?
My dad has a lot of tools. Plenty of saws, chisels, clamps, clues, finishes, etc. I don't think he has everything I need, but I definitely have more at my disposal than someone typically would. For sure.
I don't wan't to have to buy a lot of fancy equipment, but I'm willing to get the specialized tools I'll need. I think I'm going to buy Bill Cory's book and see what I can glean from that (plenty, I'm sure). I'll take things step by step...
What materials can I use for inlays besides abalone and pearl? I don't want to buy a bunch of that if I don't have to. I'm thinking copper might look cool. Just an idea... I would fancy-up the guitar if I'm able. I wan't to inlay my last name on the headstock though for sure...
-Neil
P.S. I live in Bethel, CT
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naccoachbob
- Posts: 477
- Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:25 am
- Location: Nacogdoches, Tx
Re: First Build Advice - Too Ambitious?
When you made your mold, you might have had some curved pieces from the inside, or waste, part of the wood. You can laminate 2-3 pieces together for each side, and use a turnbuckle. Here's what I did. Mine isn't picture perfect, but it worked.
You need the spreaders to keep the sides flush against the mold or else they could bend inward and distort the body.
If you noticed, my mold is a rectangle. Most people trim away all but 2 inches or so around the outside of the mold. It makes it lighter and less bulky. You can probably find better examples here in the forum.
Your sides will need to be trimmed probably. Both mine so far have been longer than needed. As far as contouring them, when you set the sides on a flat surface, the edge that joins the top will be flat, and the side won't rock. If it rocks, then the back of the guitar is on the bottom. I don't think you will need to modify the width, unless the people you bought it from put that in their instructions.
Bill's book is worth every penny.
I can't get to the post you did that talks about who you bought the kit from. If you re-post that name, I'll look at their site and see what I can figure out.
Have fun,
Bob
You need the spreaders to keep the sides flush against the mold or else they could bend inward and distort the body.
If you noticed, my mold is a rectangle. Most people trim away all but 2 inches or so around the outside of the mold. It makes it lighter and less bulky. You can probably find better examples here in the forum.
Your sides will need to be trimmed probably. Both mine so far have been longer than needed. As far as contouring them, when you set the sides on a flat surface, the edge that joins the top will be flat, and the side won't rock. If it rocks, then the back of the guitar is on the bottom. I don't think you will need to modify the width, unless the people you bought it from put that in their instructions.
Bill's book is worth every penny.
I can't get to the post you did that talks about who you bought the kit from. If you re-post that name, I'll look at their site and see what I can figure out.
Have fun,
Bob
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ngerty
Re: First Build Advice - Too Ambitious?
I purchased it from musiciansfriend.com and cancelled the order about an hour ago. I'm going to purchase the Martin D-28 style kit from the Blues Creek Guitars website when the money moves back into my bank account. I'll measure all the pieces when I get them and see if they need work.
Thanks for the reply. Bob, what did you use for the spacers in the jig? I've got scrap wood, but I'm not sure what I'll use to push the sides to the form of the jig... Also, can I assume the sides are correctly shaped and that if I dry fit them together they will form the exact shape of a Martin Dreadnought? My jig isn't perfect, but I need something that is perfect to help improve it. Maybe I can use the back for that and see how well it fits in... I just don't want to spend 90 dollars on something I can make myself. Speaking of the back, will it have the correct concave arch in it, or is that something I need to do?
Is there anything else I can do in preparation for the build? I'll work on my jig, but what else can I build/get ready now that I'd have to build/get ready later?
*A message to Blues Creek Guitars: Is it too much to ask for a D-28 kit with darker rosewood? I prefer the appearance of the really dark brown, almost black rosewood over the lighter brown colored kind. It really doesn't matter in the scheme of things, but if you've got a few D-28 kits in stock, could you pick one with a nice dark set? If not, I understand completely. In any event, I'll be ordering a kit from you, most likely tomorrow at some point.
Thanks,
-Neil
Thanks for the reply. Bob, what did you use for the spacers in the jig? I've got scrap wood, but I'm not sure what I'll use to push the sides to the form of the jig... Also, can I assume the sides are correctly shaped and that if I dry fit them together they will form the exact shape of a Martin Dreadnought? My jig isn't perfect, but I need something that is perfect to help improve it. Maybe I can use the back for that and see how well it fits in... I just don't want to spend 90 dollars on something I can make myself. Speaking of the back, will it have the correct concave arch in it, or is that something I need to do?
Is there anything else I can do in preparation for the build? I'll work on my jig, but what else can I build/get ready now that I'd have to build/get ready later?
*A message to Blues Creek Guitars: Is it too much to ask for a D-28 kit with darker rosewood? I prefer the appearance of the really dark brown, almost black rosewood over the lighter brown colored kind. It really doesn't matter in the scheme of things, but if you've got a few D-28 kits in stock, could you pick one with a nice dark set? If not, I understand completely. In any event, I'll be ordering a kit from you, most likely tomorrow at some point.
Thanks,
-Neil
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tippie53
- Posts: 7016
- Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:09 pm
- Location: Hegins, Pa
- Contact:
Re: First Build Advice - Too Ambitious?
I think we can do that. Also don't forget you do stain the wood to help make the grain pop. There also will be a tracing of the guitar for you to make your mold with. Also I support my kits so when you need to , you have someone you can speak to . We want your building experience to go as smooth as possible.
The best advice is , take your time , think it through . Good luck and I hope you have fun ,
The best advice is , take your time , think it through . Good luck and I hope you have fun ,
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
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naccoachbob
- Posts: 477
- Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:25 am
- Location: Nacogdoches, Tx
Re: First Build Advice - Too Ambitious?
Neil,
The spacers are turnbuckles. You can find them at the big hardware stores as well as other places. You turn the middle part of it and it either spreads or contracts. Usually doing it by hand to make the sides snug against the mold is enough.
When you get the back and top of your kit, they will be oversized so you can trim them to the sides. So you can't use the back as a guide.
Here is a site that Bill Cory has where he goes thru the building of several guitars. It's well worth reading and should answer some questions for you: http://web.mac.com/magads/Site/Home.html
Like John said, he will send you a tracing of the shape of the guitar. What many people do is take 1/2 of the shape of the guitar and make their mold from it. Just trace 1/2 of the profile of the guitar onto a piece of plywood. Use a band saw or something to cut it out. Then sand and smooth it until it's just right. You can use that piece as a guide for making the other pieces exactly like it. I used a flush cutting bit to copy from the first piece. I then made a total of 6 pieces (3 for each side). To connect the 2 sides together, I used scrap wood and screwed them together on each end.
There are probably better ways of doing this, so read up on Bill's site and thru the old archived posts for this site especially in the Building Procedures and Tools sections. You'll get lots of good ideas. http://www.kitguitarsforum.com/forum/
The "arch" on the back, and on the top as well, will be formed by you when you attach the bracing. Most bracing comes with an arch to it. There are many ways of gluing the bracing to the top and back that help create that arching. I bet John's bracing will be set to Martin's specs.
Bob
The spacers are turnbuckles. You can find them at the big hardware stores as well as other places. You turn the middle part of it and it either spreads or contracts. Usually doing it by hand to make the sides snug against the mold is enough.
When you get the back and top of your kit, they will be oversized so you can trim them to the sides. So you can't use the back as a guide.
Here is a site that Bill Cory has where he goes thru the building of several guitars. It's well worth reading and should answer some questions for you: http://web.mac.com/magads/Site/Home.html
Like John said, he will send you a tracing of the shape of the guitar. What many people do is take 1/2 of the shape of the guitar and make their mold from it. Just trace 1/2 of the profile of the guitar onto a piece of plywood. Use a band saw or something to cut it out. Then sand and smooth it until it's just right. You can use that piece as a guide for making the other pieces exactly like it. I used a flush cutting bit to copy from the first piece. I then made a total of 6 pieces (3 for each side). To connect the 2 sides together, I used scrap wood and screwed them together on each end.
There are probably better ways of doing this, so read up on Bill's site and thru the old archived posts for this site especially in the Building Procedures and Tools sections. You'll get lots of good ideas. http://www.kitguitarsforum.com/forum/
The "arch" on the back, and on the top as well, will be formed by you when you attach the bracing. Most bracing comes with an arch to it. There are many ways of gluing the bracing to the top and back that help create that arching. I bet John's bracing will be set to Martin's specs.
Bob
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Ken Hundley
- Posts: 608
- Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:34 am
- Location: Wilmette, IL
Re: First Build Advice - Too Ambitious?
Welcome to the world of guitar building! It is fun, frustrating, educational, rewarding, and fun again. You've got some great resources here at your beck and call between Bill's excellent book, John's quality kits and service, and the advice of everyone here, including the the other pros. Keep a detailed log of everything you do (Bill Cory has a great one, ask him when you buy the book). Your methods will change with each build as you learn, and its helpful to know what worked and what didn't. I actually logged many of my builds on www.nocturnalguitars.com. Feel free to learn from my mistakes, there were many. Good luck, take lots of pictures, and keep us up to date on how it goes!
Ken Hundley
Nocturnal Guitars
http://www.nocturnalguitars.com
So, my big brother was playing guitar and I figured I'd try it too.
- Stevie Ray Vaughan
Nocturnal Guitars
http://www.nocturnalguitars.com
So, my big brother was playing guitar and I figured I'd try it too.
- Stevie Ray Vaughan
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ngerty
Re: First Build
Thanks everyone, especially John - I appreciate it. I don't know when my money will be refunded. I hope today or tomorrow so I can order get started!
I'll have to get some turnbuckles... Unless I can just use clamps reaching in from the frame of the jig... I bought Bill's eBook and plan on reading that and learning what I can. I like the idea of recording what I do. I might not have the discipline to record everything from day one, but this forum will definitely serve as a log of sorts.
I might post a picture of my jig a little later on and see if it gets the collective approval.
-Neil
I'll have to get some turnbuckles... Unless I can just use clamps reaching in from the frame of the jig... I bought Bill's eBook and plan on reading that and learning what I can. I like the idea of recording what I do. I might not have the discipline to record everything from day one, but this forum will definitely serve as a log of sorts.
I might post a picture of my jig a little later on and see if it gets the collective approval.
-Neil