000 12-fret, first build

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Tim R
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:15 am

Re: 000 12-fret, first build

Post by Tim R »

Hello all,

I decided to use a few side reinforcement sticks. That and the kerfing are now done. So far so good.

Both the neck and end blocks stand far “proud” of the back side of the rim. Not sure why they came with kit that way… Should I now saw them both flush with the rim?

I’m starting to set-up for doing the back bracing. The largest (lower bout) brace does not extend all the way to the chalk outline of the rim, whereas the other three braces extend slightly beyond the chalk outline. Should I trim them all to be exactly flush with, or slightly inside, the chalk outline?

Runningdog: It is good to know there are others here interested in Baritones. I’ll seek your advice when the time comes.

Next step will be trimming and notching the back bracing. It’s fun!

Thanks,
Tim
tippie53
Posts: 7011
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:09 pm
Location: Hegins, Pa
Contact:

Re: 000 12-fret, first build

Post by tippie53 »

not to worry. Now as for proud blocks. you have a good bit of geometry to work with. The back has a 15 foot radius and the top has a 1 1/2 degree angle. What you do now is set in the kerfing and true every thing up. With the 1/32 off set , just blend that in as you work the kerfing down. You can help yourself with the angle , when you set up the sides in the mold , set the mold on 2 3/4 inch blocks so the mold is parallel to the table top. Top goes down and you then can place a dowel in the center. Use a level a mark a point on the dowel that is level to the tail block . Now you can use that as a mark and this will get you pretty close to set the kerfing.
On the top you want a very slight rise on the kerfing , a 1 degree angle will be all you need. Remember you may call any time
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
David L
Posts: 1319
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:04 pm
Location: Slidell, La

Re: 000 12-fret, first build

Post by David L »

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm a lazy kind of guy and if I glued an off set of only 1/32" I would have just left it alone, that small amount will be "cleaned up" when radiusing the rim after the lining is installed.

David L
Tim R
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:15 am

Re: 000 12-fret, first build

Post by Tim R »

Thanks John. I will call soon with a list of several questions.

David: I’m new to this woodworking thing and I guess my judgment about what is or is not a serious goof needs refinement. Also, the offset was really a bit more than 1/32. Anyway, I checked this morning and the offset is now gone with the new glue-up.

Thanks,
Tim
David L
Posts: 1319
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:04 pm
Location: Slidell, La

Re: 000 12-fret, first build

Post by David L »

Hey Tim I'm not a seasoned pro myself, I've learned a little bit about woodworking by simply farting around with little projects at home and I've learned a little about building guitars by trying it out myself and harassing everyone on this forum who would let me. I have never heard anyone express disdain due to my constant barrage of endless inane questions. I have found this to be a very friendly site, I wasn't trying to patronize you as I am a newbie myself. Again, I can't speak for anyone else and I'm not trying to advise you but I think that I may let up to a 1/16" off-set ride, I probably sanded off that much when I prepped the top and back of the rim to close the box. If there is some serious bookmatching going on then I might have some concerns about too much off-set but then again, with the end graft and neck installed, I think the off-set would have to be substantial (more than the little fractions we're talking about here) to notice that the bookmatch was off-set, others may think differently about this. We recently had a discussion in another thread about when to try to fix something and when to leave it alone, I know for me, there is no "problem" too small that I can't make worse by trying to fix it! Whenever I'm about to start a process or do a step and I'm not quite sure about it, I will stop, take pictures, post the pictures and ask lots of questions until I feel comfortable about moving ahead.
Just remember that I'm sharing with you my very limited experience of building a grand total of "almost" one whole guitar, so take that with the ole proverbial grain of salt. I'll leave the advice department to those who actually know what they are talking about.

David L
Tim R
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:15 am

Re: 000 12-fret, first build

Post by Tim R »

David,

I was not offended at all. No worries. I REALLY appreciate your and other responses to my questions. That first guitar of yours looks fantastic. Love that nitro finish! It is a real inspiration for this first timer to see.

I'm actually kind of glad I decided to unglue the joint. I now have a feel for how the glue behaves when it gets hot and if I have to undo a joint again at some point it will seem less intimidating. Not that I would recommend it if it can be avoided though!

Cheers,
Tim
David L
Posts: 1319
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:04 pm
Location: Slidell, La

Re: 000 12-fret, first build

Post by David L »

Thanks for the compliment Tim. When I ordered my kit from John I had not yet discovered this forum (stumbled on it a couple of days after I ordered my kit) once I found this forum I had a couple of weeks to study before my kit arrived, so I read every post in every thread in every catagory in both the new forum and the archives at least once, some threads several times. After doing this I had a bit of an idea of what I was about to get myself into, by studying this forum I was able to somewhat get a grasp (mentally) on some of the tasks. Some procedures I was still baffled about (and some I still am today) because of lack of documentation, or my lack of recognizing the documentation. I decided that when I started building my kit that I was going to do a fairly thorough documentation including all of the boring ho-hum knick-knack patty whack stuff that I didn't see too much documentation on. I did this because I enjoy it plus I thought it might help others coming in behind me or at least maybe they might get a giggle out of my sillyness, anyway, I really enjoy this and it looks like you do too.

David L
Tim R
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:15 am

Re: 000 12-fret, first build

Post by Tim R »

Hello all, Just checkin’ in with an update.

I’ve glued the braces to the back using my between-shelves go-bar deck, using staggered index cards to approximate the back radius. See pic. The glue joints seem to be pretty tight.

I’ve also fretted the fret board with no major glitches. I used John Hall’s approach of watery wood glue to lubricate the slots and it worked well. I used a regular hammer, but held a single index card between the hammer and the fret on each strike. This seems to have prevented any marring of the frets. I also used stacks of index cards between my bench and the fret board to prevent bounce (as the board began to bow slightly after several frets were added). After every few frets, I removed the clamps and adjusted the index card stack as needed. Maybe I got lucky, but this simple and inexpensive approach seems to have worked well for fretting.

Index cards are clearly quite useful in my workshop!

Finally, I have used silica gel and a large plastic zip lock bag to acclimate parts to be glued as I wait for humidity to drop to about 50%, as it does once every week or two in the afternoon here in San Diego. I put the parts (e.g., back and braces) and a plastic container with silica gel, in the zip lock bag, along with a digital hydrometer. By shaking the plastic container occasionally (through the bag without opening it) I was able to get the RH to drop from about 65% to about 40% over about a 24-hour period. It appears that the shaking is needed for the humidity in the bag to continue to drop. I suspect that the crystals on top get saturated quickly and the shaking exposes drier crystals underneath. Anyway, after the reading reached 40% I quickly removed the gel/crystal container. Opening the bag briefly to remove the container raised the humidity back to about 50%, but that value has held steady for two days. When the outside humidity (I work in an open garage) drops to about 50%, I pull out the parts to do the gluing. Seems to work so far.

On down note, I’ve put a noticeable depression in my rosewood rim at the location of the head block. I used a steel c-clamp there while gluing, without a wood piece to distribute the load and, what do you know, I now have a compressed area on the rosewood! Not too noticeable though, and lessen learned.

Cheers,
Tim
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David L
Posts: 1319
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:04 pm
Location: Slidell, La

Re: 000 12-fret, first build

Post by David L »

To remove dents/depressions I use water and an old clothes iron. preheat iron to medium high, orient the rim with the depression face up, apply a couple drops of water so that the dent is covered with water, zap it with the iron for a couple of seconds (you should hear snap, crackle, and pop), inspect. This process can be repeated several times. It may not get it all out (or it may) but it should at least raise it some.

David L
MuddyFox
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:00 am

Re: 000 12-fret, first build

Post by MuddyFox »

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