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Plate joining
Author
Post
Mark Forster-King

Total Topics: 10
Total Posts: 19
Hi fellow luthiers...I am about to start my 2ng guitar which will be another OM but with much less "Kit parts an servicing" and more DIY from me .
In joining the back plates( or top plates for that matter) which is the preffered system for people out there?plate jig such as what LMI sell or the Tape method as I have seen on several Utube postings? also I notice that one of my back plates has very,very slight cupping 2-3mm max...is this some thing to be concerned about or is this a fairly common enough occurance in wood which is seldom absolutely flat/straight and since this back will have a radius on it any way should I not be too concerned about this? your thoughts?
Regards

Jul 04, 10 | 1:51 am
blues creek guitars Authorized Martin Repair Ctr

Total Topics: 52
Total Posts: 1011
Joining backs can be intimidating . Once you dial in a technique that you feel comfortable you will have more confidence. I use the tape method and have for years .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3asM32m0S1U this is a method that I use for joining some woods. Not all woods will do well with CA as it can glaze the wood. The key to make any joint is the integrity of the joint. Make a good flush joint and you will be on the road to success. Forcing a joint will cause it to fail. Take the time to learn how to make a good joint.
I use a granite plate to make my joints. A table saw top is also flat enough to make a good joint. Put sandpaper under the fence and you can use that flat surface and the fence to make a square and flush joint .

John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc.
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center

Jul 04, 10 | 3:32 am
dviss

Total Topics: 18
Total Posts: 165
Mark,
I used a baton and nail press for the my first and the tape method for my second, both with lmi white glue. I think the tape method was a little easier. The press generates a lot of force, and as John said, you don't want to force the joint.


Jul 04, 10 | 12:00 pm
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262
Hi Mark,
I never like the tape method or the wedgey cord thingy, so this is how we've been doing it for many years, in fact it is our production process since it only takes about five minutes per plate. Note that the clampimg caul has a recess so uneven plates and also a center strip can be joined at the same time.

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/JointingToporBackhalves.html

Ken Cierp

Kenneth Michael Guitars est. 1978

Jul 04, 10 | 12:19 pm
naccoachbob

Total Topics: 26
Total Posts: 257
What would you guys recommend for a rosewood back set that has already been cut out into a D shape? I bought a kit from someone who got it from Martin, and the back parts were not joined. I have to run it down the shooting board to true up the connecting parts. Also, the back has been thicknessed. Can I use super glue? Is there a terrible amount of sanding once CA is used?
Thanks,
Bob

Jul 04, 10 | 4:28 pm
Mark Forster-King

Total Topics: 10
Total Posts: 19
Thanks for the feedback guys I will take everyones suggestions on board and come up with solution...regards Mark

Jul 05, 10 | 2:52 am
blues creek guitars Authorized Martin Repair Ctr

Total Topics: 52
Total Posts: 1011
the video I posted will work well. There are as many techniques to glue up plates as there is luthiers . The important thing is joint surface mating . When you have an irregular shape it is hard to use mechanical clamps. I don't like the cord and wedge thing ,but it does work , Ken doesn't like the tape , but I use it as do others and we find that works .
I think in the end , you will find the technique that works for you. I have seen classical builders that just apply the glue , join the plates with hand pressure and allow that to be all that is done.
I found the tape method works for me . you can use weights to help keep the plate flat when you do glue up.

John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc.
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center

Jul 05, 10 | 3:36 am
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262
Bob,
Sanding off CA plus accelerator can be a little work but I agree with John for Rosewood CA is hard to beat --- The tape method he described is pretty slick and the little extra sanding is worth the effort.

Just a note to those thinking about using this CA method for the soundboard joint -- DON'T DO IT! If the CA leeches into the grain (especially the end grain) the wood will turn a bright yellow green and the stain cannot be removed.

Ken Cierp

Kenneth Michael Guitars est. 1978


Jul 05, 10 | 5:09 am
blues creek guitars Authorized Martin Repair Ctr

Total Topics: 52
Total Posts: 1011
Ken's point is on the money . CA and Spruce just don't like each other.

John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc.
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center

Jul 05, 10 | 1:59 pm
FredB

Total Topics: 11
Total Posts: 94
I so enjoy reading the different methodologies to accomplish a single task, but I'm discovering that the mantra of "practice, practice, practice" before doing the final task is paramount to success. That practice can be as simple as doing dry runs using a different method.
Even as our forum experts so thoroughly describe different methods, it's great when their expertise complements the other's. In my practicing, I'm finding both John's and Ken's methods are not difficult; you just need to find one you are most comfortable with and that only comes from, you guessed it, practice.

Jul 05, 10 | 4:57 pm
blues creek guitars Authorized Martin Repair Ctr

Total Topics: 52
Total Posts: 1011
That is correct . Ken and I may not always agree , but we agree to disagree. It is good to see more than one way. Ken is no dummie , he may do things different than I but that is good. There is more than one way to do things. I know Ken won't steer you wrong. I won't either so you know you will be getting sound advice.
The goal of this site is to get you good information . That is why Ken is a welcome sponsor and addition to our site.

John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc.
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center

Jul 06, 10 | 3:09 am
Ken Hundley

Total Topics: 40
Total Posts: 2169
As far as getting rid of CA, my favorite method is to scrape using a single disposable razor blade. ITs teh cheapest, quickest, and arguably best scraper blade you can come up with....roll the edge just like a cabinet scraper, tape the edges if you are undure and want to protect your wood from digging in. I just flex the blade so the corners are lifted. A few quick swipes, and no more CA!

Jul 06, 10 | 2:42 pm



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