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Binding Mistake: How Would You Correct It?
Author
Post
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 514
Well, I was having such good success with my new jig cutting the binding/purfling channel.......that I got careless. I had both the binding channels cut on top and back. I had cut the channel on the back for the black/white purfling. I had setup and cut the channel for the herringbone purfling on the top. After a cleanup cut or two I laid the herringbone in the channel and after going back and forth a couple of times I decided to cut the channel slightly deeper.....maybe 0.005".

So I made a tiny adjustment in the depth of the router blade, grabbed the body and started cutting. I cut maybe 5 or 6 inches and decided to check and see how well it fit. That's when I noticed I made the cut in BACK instead of the top. Stupid, stupid, stupid.......and I was so close to finishing!

Oh well. I guess I'll need to use a wide purfling instead of a simple black/white purfling. So what are my options?

- I could order herringbone for the back and it would look just like the top.

- I could use 2 black/white strips for a black/white/black/white purfling. It just so happens I have an extra black/white strip so I wouldn't even have to wait on an order. It's all the wider black/white strips (not the narrower version like you see sometimes on the sides of the tail graft).

- Any other suggestions? The centerline strip is a traditional zigzag pattern.

As John often says, you'll learn more from a mistake than from a success......

Jun 27, 10 | 7:38 pm
Kevin Sjostrand

Total Topics: 84
Total Posts: 981
I think you are going to be fine.
You may even like it more than what you had planned originally.
Either purfling will look good and the BWBW is pretty traditional for a back.
Either way, go slooooooooooooow and make sure you don't cut too wide, too deep so this works out for you.

Kevin

Jun 27, 10 | 8:17 pm
blues creek guitars Authorized Martin Repair Ctr

Total Topics: 52
Total Posts: 1011
This is a mistake that gives you the option for design enhancement.

John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc.
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center

Jun 28, 10 | 3:54 am
Ken Hundley

Total Topics: 40
Total Posts: 2169
you could double up on the black and white as well....B/B/W/W...this might take up the space without really clashing as a design scheme....just sort of emboldens the binding on the back rather than stealing the show. I have doubled up like that and not been able to see a seam with the w/w at all. Make sure you spread your glue evenly, though. ANyway you do it, I think it will turn out looking good. As John said, a design enhancment.

Jun 28, 10 | 8:04 am
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
Ken, thanks for that suggestion. I have two B/W stips that are preglued. If I use that option, my only choices are B/W/B/W or B/W/W/B or W/B/B/W. It would probably look odd to have white right up against my Ivaroid (off-white) binding. So probably my options are B/W/B/W or B/W/W/B. If I used B/W/W/B, I'm not sure how it would look to have a white strip (in between the narrow black strips) that is as heavy as the off-white purfling. I'll have to try the different options on the body and see how they look.

Jun 28, 10 | 9:02 am
Tony_in_NYC

Total Topics: 29
Total Posts: 448
Go with b/w/b/w. It will look great. And the tiny width of the white will make it almost look like the off white ivoroid.
However, Ken Cierp tried to warn me about putting white against the base wood. Black fools your eye so you dont notice tiny mistakes in the channel. You might consider ordering a b/w/b strip so your purf has black against your back and the ivoroid.
Or...order a single black strip to add to what you already have. But I learned the hard way that getting the white strip to look perfect against the walnut B&S I had was not easy and even after I routed and cleaned up the channels, I still had to fill some tiny gaps. More for my own satisfaction than anything else. I asked a few people to examine the binding for gaps and they claimed to not see any. I might be surrounded by liars, or I might be over critical. It looks good under finish though!!

Jun 29, 10 | 6:09 pm
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
I went with the B/W/B/W with a black line against the ivaroid purfling and a white line against the rosewood. It turned out pretty nice. I haven't scraped everything down yet. I'll wait till after I glue the binding/purfling on the top which I will do tomorrow night hopefully.

I have one roughly 1" long place on the top where I must have tilted or twisted the guitar slightly and it cut slightly further than the rest of the way around the guitar. It seems too shallow to do anything with it so maybe I'll just leave it, haven't decided. I might be able to get my fingernail in between the edge of the soundboard and the herringbone where this spot is, not sure. Any suggestions other than live with it and fill later as needed?

Jul 01, 10 | 4:40 pm
Ken Hundley

Total Topics: 40
Total Posts: 2169
What is your back material? You could fill with dust, or try to find a piece of scrap....cut a sliver or shim of the same grain pattern, try to line up the grains...

Tony....I think when you stare at your own work for hundreds of hours, you are far more intimate, and therefore critical, of it than any but the most discerning. Most people (non-builders) can't tell the difference between a spruce and redwood top, and won't see small gaps in binding till they've stared at it as long as you did while building it.

Jul 02, 10 | 7:09 am
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
My back is fine.....it's the spruce top that is slightly cut too far in for about 1" - 1 1/2" long. Actually, I doubt it's enough to get my fingernail between the purfling and the top. I don't know anyway to cut anything that thin. Possibly I could make a shaving that thick with my plane, not sure. It would help if I posted a pic. I'll see if I can get one.

Jul 02, 10 | 8:54 am
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
Here is a pic. The gap appears worse than it is as you can see I don't have the herringbonepushed up against the ledge all the way. You can see the beginning and end of the area where the extra width is removed. So far, this is the only mistake I've found routing the channels.


Jul 02, 10 | 9:18 am
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
This pic probably shows the error better:


Jul 02, 10 | 9:34 am
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
I still don't have one edge pushed up tight.....but you get the idea. I'm also holding the purfling in place in the bottom pic (not in the top pic).

Jul 02, 10 | 9:42 am
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
Wow, I meant to say I'm holding the BINDING in place in the second pic but not the first.......it's tough getting old! <smile>

Jul 02, 10 | 10:24 am
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262
If that is a shallow ridge I am seeing .025" or so all you have to do is take an RO sander and blend down the sound board to remove the ridge -- do the other side as well so the rim is symetrical, then re-router the channels. The taper you create will be invisible plus, thinning the top perimeter a bit at the edges --- some say actually frees it up and improves response. Using dust and glue or what ever to fill the void will come out dark and look like S**t

Ken Cierp

Kenneth Michael Guitars est. 1978

Jul 02, 10 | 11:48 am
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
Thanks Ken.

I may not be following what you mean by a ridge. Inside the herrinbone purfling is a recess where my router bit cut too much away. Does that make sense? Sorry I'm confused and I appreciate you trying to help.

Jul 02, 10 | 12:12 pm
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262
Yes I am calling the "recess" a ridge, if it is shallow the process I explained is the way to go for correction. However, if the recess is as deep as the purf channel then that's a different story.

Ken Cierp


Jul 02, 10 | 1:17 pm
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
OK, I think I finally understand what you are saying now. Unfortunately, the recess isn't shallow.....it goes all the way down to the bottom of the purfling channel.

I have found a piece of scrap that I could glue in here and re-route the channel. How can I fit the scrap to the channel for a nearly invisible fit? Seems I will need to enlarge the channel and try to square it off to some shape that I can match with my scrap. I'm a little worried enlarging it will only make it more prominent in the end.

Jul 02, 10 | 2:41 pm
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262
In my view enlarging the area would make things worse. I would suggest that you take a piece of the binding and cover it with plastic packaging tape (which acts as a release material) -- tape that to create a "dam" along the purf channel. Fill the over cut with slivers of the top wood matching the grain direction as best as possible. Keep the glue on the inside of the recess (again as best as possible. You'll have to sorta force things in place. Don't worry if the patch is too high it will be sanded after it dries. Remove the dam and use a file to smooth the channel. No doubt some tiny voids will still remain --- those can be fix with "clear" filler made with lacquer -- make a puddle of lacquer on a piece of glass and let the solvents evaporate -- the material will end up a "clear" gel that can be packed in to the voids. it will shrink so it will take a couple of applications.

Ken Cierp

Kenneth Michael Guitars est. 1978

Jul 03, 10 | 6:08 am



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