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Binding Glue
Author
Post
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 514
I'm trying to buy glue for my ivoroid binding and was looking for Weld-On 16 or Duco. I can't find Weld-On locally.

I did find Duco but I'm not sure it's the right one. Which Duco cement am I looking for? There is at least Duco Cement Multi-Purpose Household Glue and Devcon All-Purpose Duco Cement and Devcon Duco Cement......are these the same thing?

May 11, 10 | 10:17 am
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
Also, what tape do you use? Can I find tape locally that works well or do I need to order the binding tape from Stew/Mac or LMI?

May 11, 10 | 10:30 am
Freeman

Total Topics: 27
Total Posts: 668
For plastic bindings I have used the Duco in the green tube - it partially melts the plastic. Works really nice when you do butt joints. Devcon is a different brand name - I'm familiar with their epoxies but not a plastic glue. I would also consider the glues sold by LMI or StewMac for their bindings. Lastly I have heard of people using CA in short applications - sounds like a real hassle.

For tape I've used plain old masking tape - both brown and blue. I know that others have used other tapes, some people talk about "de-sticking" masking tape first.

Like anything else, experiment with scrap. Route a little channel, glue a piece of binding in it, scrape it down. See if it swells or not - some people like to scrape a tiny bit of wood, others like to make the binding stand slightly proud and scrape it back.

May 11, 10 | 11:18 am
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
Some folks have recommended both the green and purple 3M painters tape. Any thoughts on either of these tapes? One any better than the other?

May 11, 10 | 11:50 am
Charles Kuo

Total Topics: 43
Total Posts: 222

In my limited experience, the brown tape from LMI works much better than the Green 'Frog Tape'.

That being said, you can still get great results from using the green tape if you prep the bindings well.

I had mixed success with the green tape - first with ivoroid bindings and then with bloodwood.

The brown tape allows you to really really mash those bindings in.

-Charles


May 11, 10 | 1:10 pm
blues creek guitars Authorized Martin Repair Ctr

Total Topics: 52
Total Posts: 1011
I use Duco green
john hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc.
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center

May 11, 10 | 3:06 pm
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
Charles, isn't the 3M green painters tape a different product from the Frog Tape?

This was posted by Lance (llajoy) in another thread:
There is also a green version of 3M's painters tape that is available in automotive stores. I find it to have a slight stretch to it so it holds tight and I have not noticed any tear out.

And by Ken Hundley on another thread:
I used the purple painters tape from 3m, a lot less tack. You can also use drafting tape, made specifically not to tear out the surface of drafting paper, and works excellent for binding. You should be able to get it at art supply stores, or your typicale Staples or Officemax/depot.

I wonder if the purple tape is has any stretch to hold the binding snug in place? I have the same question about the drafting tape. Anyone compared teh green 3M tape with the purple 3M tape?



May 11, 10 | 3:31 pm
Bill Cory

Total Topics: 158
Total Posts: 3584
I've tried the stretchable tape in the past, and found that when I stretched it around the binding, I pretty much used up all of the stretch it had to offer, so it didn't tighten the binding down any more than at the very start. I've settled on the brown binding tape because it is strong enough to be pulled really tight over the binding.

Bill

May 11, 10 | 4:04 pm
longbow

Total Topics: 4
Total Posts: 74
Adaboy, get LMI binding cement # FCA 2 oz. , IT's 7.00 bucks. It works great on ivoroid, used by large factories, you don't want it coming off. No smell no fumes, and it works fast. Also I just used blue painter's tape and reg. masking tape.

May 12, 10 | 2:34 am
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
Longbow, the FCA binding cement really appealed to me; however, I've had feedback from some folks that have used it that it is difficult to clean up. One poster said that it is difficult to scrape the excess off the binding. I of course haven't used it so just going with what I've read. What was your experience with the clean up?

I have a day of vacation to take between now and and next Tuesday so I'm hoping to work on this on the vacation day and over the weekend. With that in mind, I'll probably use what is available locally so I don't have to wait on an order to arrive.

I think I've found Duco here locally so I'll likely use that product for the glue (and some others have posted that it seems to work better than Weld-On 16 for ivoroid). My neighbor has a body shop and I'll swing by there and see if he has any suggestion for a low tack tape with a slight stretch that maintains the springback.

BTW, I talked with John Hall last night about binding. First, what a great guy to take the time to help folks like me with no experience. John was very helpful filling me in on all the little details. A big thanks John! Also, John advised that I install the tail wedge before cutting the binding/purfling channels so it looks like that is my next step.

May 12, 10 | 5:15 am
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
Is this the Duco cement I want to use?



May 12, 10 | 5:52 am
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
The glue in the pic above is called Duco Cement Multi-Purpose Household Glue.

May 12, 10 | 5:54 am
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
There is more info on binding glue in this old thread:

http://www.kitguitarsforum.com/forum/threads.php?id=2648_0_6_0_C


May 12, 10 | 7:30 am
longbow

Total Topics: 4
Total Posts: 74
Adaboy, that was the thead that made me worry about ivoroid. The FCA stuff was a little hard to get off the sides, remember me and you were talking about scraping and sanding wood bindings on the other thread. When I pore filled in some spots the dye in the filler did'nt get to the wood because some of the cement was still on. But I'm sure I could of sanded it off with a little more work. I also may have used a little too much cement, so I did g*** it up a bit. I'm no pro and dang it, I really need to finish the two I'm working on. But really someday give it a try , it still is pretty good stuff. If I would of sealed first and then filled it also would of worked better, but the filler I ordered got back ordered and one thing or another is always shipping wrong. Next time I will take the effort to get all the finishing things I need , spray sealer, the right filler, nitro,buffing wheels, ect.....sorry I went on and on Dave L.

May 13, 10 | 6:29 am
Ken Hundley

Total Topics: 40
Total Posts: 2169
I have used the blue and purple 3m masing tape, as mentioend before. The purple removes easier, but neither work well if you really have to pull the binding into a tight area. My suspicion is the paper tape is far superior there....I just haven't tried it yet, and its not easy to find locally.

May 13, 10 | 2:28 pm
Todd Stock

Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 6
Strapping tape is stronger than just about anything else...the 3M stuff with the cross-tape reinforcement is what I use...the three rolls of non-perforated veneer tape (aka fat back or binding tape...same stuff SM sells) does not get mutch use. Any tape can be trouble on softwood tops, but sealing with shellac before milling the binding channels and gluing in the binding will eliminate tearout. Another trick is use a hair dryer or heat gun set on low to heat the tape just enough to allow easy removal after the glue is dry.

Another option for mixed plastic and woods is LMI's FCA contact adhesive. Limited shelf life, but works well on tricky stuff like cocobolo and vinyl. Probably the most reliable.

Still another option for ivoroid and wood purfs is Titebond or LMI White or Gorilla White...just wet the bonding surface of the ivoroid with acetone just prior to bodning, then use the wood glue in the joint. You will have to work fast to close the joint, so do 6-7 inches at a time with acetone; however, this approach works well and has been as durable as other methods. I think John Hall tried this method with mixed success, so practice on scrap if you think it might be something you'd like to do.

Weld-On can be found in plastics dealers - look for a Piedmont Plastics or other plastic wholesaler.

As far as getting a gapless binding job, I've found two ways:

1. Tape everything in place with strapping tape and CA with thin glue (big mess...lots of clean-up...works best for complex bindings such as around a Florentine cutaway)

2. Use a fixture to hold the guitar and put 15-20 of those 40" long rubber bands from Stew Mac on to pull everything tight. it's another fixture to build and store, but I never, ever get a gap in a binding job.

Here's a shot of the fixture...just a 3/4" ply base shaped to the body and 2-1/4" deck screws set every inch in the edge. A scrap of 2x4 screwed to the base allows things to be clamped in a vise (the SM repair vise is ideal). I use foam camper shell tape around the edge to support the edges of the guitar (a cardboard cutout of the body goes between fixture and guitar body to prevent any chance of damage to top or back). For cutaways, just make the 2x4 cleat reversible and flip the fixture over.




May 26, 10 | 3:32 am
dviss

Total Topics: 18
Total Posts: 165
Hey Todd,
Welcome to the Forum!

Thanks for the fixture idea.

Darren

May 26, 10 | 5:33 am
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
Great post Todd!

May 26, 10 | 9:23 am



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