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nitrocellulose lacquer (Deft/Behlen's compatibility)
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Post
Chris Huston

Total Topics: 2
Total Posts: 5
Hello all,
I have a question re nitrocellulose lacquer. I'm finishing an OM-type with rosewood back/sides and curly maple end-graft and bindings. The bindings looked great before beginning to finish, but I'm struggling to keep the red rosewood oils from bleeding over. So far, I've used Behlen's vinyl sanding sealer, McFadden's rosewood oil paste wood filler, sanded and scraped bindings clean, resealed with 2 coats vinyl sealer, and overcoated with 2 coats of Behlen's stringed instrument lacquer that I brushed on after thinning and adding lacquer retarder (similar to method described in the Cumpiano book). I've wiped down with paper towels slightly dampened with lacquer reducer between all coatings. Anyhow, despite doing my best to keep the red rosewood oils from bleeding into the curly maple bindings, the bindings are now a mess (the rosewood and spruce soundboard look great). I'm contemplating scraping the bindings down again and recoating just them before proceeding with brushing more coats vs. scraping them and doing my remaining coats of lacquer with Deft aerosol so that I don't keep dragging the rosewood color around with the brush. Does anyone have tips on keeping the rosewood from bleeding or know if the Deft would be ok over the Behlen's? Next time, I think I'll stick with a less toxic waterborne lacquer...

May 03, 10 | 9:30 am
Ken Hundley

Total Topics: 40
Total Posts: 2169
I wonder if masking the binding for 3-4 coats would help....my guess is the more coats you have on the RW the less bleeding you would get. Just a thought.

May 03, 10 | 1:16 pm
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262
You pretty much have to spray on the sealer coats -- a large part of what drives the sealer concept is to prevent exactly what you have here. In my opinion Deft would do the same thing. In my recommended Deft finishing schedule (spray and/or brush-on) I call out the need to spray the sealer coats to prevent bleed problems. Like Ken H. says -- Masking off the light areas is also a very good practice -- in the long run it could be a time saver and quality improvement.

Ken

Kenneth Michael Guitars est. 1978

May 03, 10 | 2:39 pm
blues creek guitars Authorized Martin Repair Ctr

Total Topics: 52
Total Posts: 1011
as stated , you need the sealer. The schedule would be
satin - seal- fill -seal - spray a coat every hour for 8 hours let set . do not sand between coats. It will take about 2 to 3 weeks to allow the lacquer to cure properly.
Then you have to level sand and then shoot 3 coats for the finish layer. Allow 10 to 14 days to cure then level sand and polish. I stopped using Deft when I found Behlen. The is better product and less additives. It is best to use a sprayer and use the string instrument lacquer.
Macfaddens will soon be back on the market. The formula was purchases during the bankruptcy and will be produced again though I am not sure if it will be under Macfaddens name or not.
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc,
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center

May 03, 10 | 4:27 pm
blues creek guitars Authorized Martin Repair Ctr

Total Topics: 52
Total Posts: 1011
One thing I wanted to ask , was how long did you wait before application of the finish over the sealer. I do prefer spraying. Finishing is as much technique as product and sometimes I think it is more technique.

John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc,
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center

May 04, 10 | 3:29 am
Chris Huston

Total Topics: 2
Total Posts: 5
Thanks to everyone for helpful comments. I think I must have gone wrong with the sealer. I waited 24 hours after the final coat of vinyl sealer before starting with lacquer coats. However, I sanded after the last coat--I sanded through in a few places on the sides, which is where I ran into trouble.

Last night I scraped the bindings clean with the notion that I would try masking them and coating separately. However, now I'm leaning towards scraping the sides clean, and then resealing and adding topcoats using the aerosol cans that are available.

May 04, 10 | 5:23 am
Chris Huston

Total Topics: 2
Total Posts: 5
Hello all,
Just a final thanks. It's been about a week since my "disaster". Based on everyone's thoughts, I scraped and sanded the sides cleaned, resealed with two coats of vinyl sealer (without sanding), and then applied all lacquer coats by brush. Anyhow, there was no bleeding of the rosewood color and, except for a few drips, I'm really pleased with the way it turned out. I'm going to let it cure for 10-14 days and then try to sand it level--will go for a satin finish except on the soundboard where I will try for gloss. I'll upload pictures when all done.
Thanks again for the great advice!

May 12, 10 | 3:40 am
Ken Hundley

Total Topics: 40
Total Posts: 2169
Glad to hear that Chris. One consideration on the satin look: Without a "satin" product, over time, you will get some polishing of areas that rub....

May 12, 10 | 7:53 am
Chris Huston

Total Topics: 2
Total Posts: 5
Thanks for the heads-up, Ken. I think I didn't do a good enough job applying the lacquer to do a gloss finish on the whole guitar, but will try. Incidentally, I did take your advice and mask the bindings when re-applying sanding sealer, which worked great.

May 13, 10 | 6:14 am
Ken Hundley

Total Topics: 40
Total Posts: 2169
Can't wait to see it Chris.

May 13, 10 | 2:30 pm



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