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Target amber shellac on plastic bindings?
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Dennis Weatherly

Total Topics: 73
Total Posts: 654
I'm moving this to it's own thread so it doesn't get lost. I am brushing Target amber shellac on the 000 now and I am having a heck of a time getting smooth, even coverage on the white plastic bindings and end wedge. I was hoping that the amber would lend an aged tint to the bindings. Is there any way to get good coverage here without spraying the shellac? Or should I scrape the bindings clean and mask them off until I get to the EM6000 top coat?

Jan 01, 10 | 9:46 am
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262
Hi Dennis,

Surely you are not going to want to hear this --- because of this problem, shellac on plastic "gumming up" and the off value shading issue caused by sanding and multiple coats, mentioned in the other thread I avoid shellac all together. Mind you that I never used the Water borne version, but based on the comments I have read recently it appears the problems are indeed the same solvent or WB. Shellac does stick to just about anything and for me its only use is as a transition coat --- but if one uses all compatible coatings the transition coat is not required. The bottom line, for me anyway, is to use a complete modern finishing system and avoid shellac at all costs. $.02

Ken

Kenneth Michael Guitars est. 1978

Jan 01, 10 | 1:15 pm
MetcalfGuitars

Total Topics: 4
Total Posts: 68
Dennis, Scrape and tape and add some toner to your top coat.

Jan 01, 10 | 3:10 pm
Dennis Weatherly

Total Topics: 73
Total Posts: 651
Ken, I'm using the Target shellac that is designed to be used with the HSF and EM6000 top coat products. It is actually sticking to the plastic bindings quite nicely. I'm just having a hard time applying it evenly using a brush. It sounds like my best bet is to scrape the bindings clean and leave them white. I am trying to do a "no spray" finish on this guitar. I would rather have white bindings than unevenly tinted bindings.

Jan 01, 10 | 4:42 pm
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262
Hi Dennis,

I am sure the products are compatible, and its good to know that the WB sticks well to the plastic. I was also thinking, but surely not clearly stating that the idea of a "toner" even in the top coat can be evenly brush applied may be a challange. Its that the thickness of and flatness of the coating determines the overall color value when applying a tint. So brush marks stand out and uneven sanding can affect the consistancy of the final depth/value of the color. I experienced a situation where this blotchyness did not show up until I applied the final clear coats. So what I am suggesting is that you use a rattle can to apply your tint/toner.

Ken






Jan 01, 10 | 5:36 pm
Dennis Weatherly

Total Topics: 73
Total Posts: 651
Thanks Ken, that makes more sense. Since I am trying to avoid using spray gear on this project (even a rattle can if possible) I will probably just stick with white bindings. They will look fine.

Jan 01, 10 | 6:32 pm
Dennis Weatherly

Total Topics: 73
Total Posts: 651
Scraped the bindings clean with a razor blade this morning and then taped them up for the final coat of amber shellac. The white bindings look really nice against the mahogany and amber-tinted spruce top. Theanks for the input, folks.

Jan 02, 10 | 3:23 pm
jim

Total Topics: 5
Total Posts: 13
Dennis, last night I brushed Zinsser Amber Shellac on to the top and body of my 00-12fret (1st build) - what a disaster. It looked OK on the mahogany, but I could not get it even on the spruce top - seemed like the shellac was too gooey. Perhaps I just could not see how bad it was on the mahogany. Tonight I sanded the top down to wood mostly and scraped/sanded the bindings clean mostly. Now, after sanding the bindings, the sides are unevenly coated with the shellac and I'm outa steam. Did you thin the shellac for brushing? Did it spread evenly on the wood surfaces before getting tacky? What was your final sanding grit before the shellac? thanks...Jim.

Jan 26, 10 | 5:31 pm
Ken Hundley

Total Topics: 40
Total Posts: 2169
Hi Jim....you could definitely thin it. Did you use the shellac or the sanding sealer? The sanding sealer, if I recall, works better.....flows better, coats more evenly ,and is harder. I have never had to thin that stuff, either sprays or brushes right on.

Jan 26, 10 | 5:47 pm
Dennis Weatherly

Total Topics: 73
Total Posts: 651
I was using Target Coatings UltraSeal shellac on my 000-18. It is also mahogany/sitka. I used the UltraSeal straight from the can, without any thinning. I sanded everything to 320 grit before applying the shellac. Using a good brush I was able to get a nice, even coat on the sitka. I did have to work carefully to make sure it looked even. After three coats the finish and color was pretty even. It was a lot less of an issue on the mahogany because of the color of the wood itself. I ended up scraping the bindings clean and masking them off, so they have no shellac on them at all.

I have also heard of folks thinning regular shellac and applying it with a pad rather than a brush. This allows you to work the shellac a lot like applying a stain. The trick is slowing down the shellac's cure time to give you time to work.

Jan 26, 10 | 6:21 pm
Dennis Weatherly

Total Topics: 73
Total Posts: 651
Just remembered I have some more recent photos online. This link shows the color I ended up with on the top. This is three coats of Target Coatings UltraSeal amber shellac followd by 14 coats of Target Coatings EM6000 clear lacquer. All was applied with a DaVinci 5280 brush. This is not yet sanded and polished.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/XddgRgaKS0Gh_r7dEscrRA?authkey=Gv1sRgCOSZxePOjdaBOg&feat=directlink

Jan 26, 10 | 6:24 pm
Ken Hundley

Total Topics: 40
Total Posts: 2169
I have heard of people having issues with the amber shellac, but then turning around and having none with the amber sanding sealer. You might want to sand and retry with zinssers sanding sealer instead.

Jan 26, 10 | 10:54 pm
jim

Total Topics: 5
Total Posts: 13
Dennis and Ken, thanks very much. I'm gonna check out that sanding sealer. I'll be away for a few days, so I'll have time to ponder this before I get back to work. Dennis, thanks for posting that photo; that's just the look I'm seeking. I plan to use hand-applied tru-oil over the shellac. It looks and feels fabulous on the neck, even without pore filling. I think my good experience with the shellac/tru-oil combo on the neck made me overly confident about using the same process on the body and I did not adequately test the application of the shellac on the larger surface. Had I done that, I probably would have decided to thin it first. That stuff comes off a lot harder than it goes on...Jim.

Jan 27, 10 | 4:16 am



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