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Z-Poxy pore filling
Author
Post
Kyle

Total Topics: 18
Total Posts: 45
I'm using Z-poxy to pore fill my first project and have a question for anyone who's used this technique...

I tried taking Kathy Matsushita's advice on her web site (great site for amatuer builders) and applied a couple of coats with an old credit card, then a final coat cut 50% with alcohol applied with a clean cotton cloth. She says she does not sand the first 2 coats back to wood, but just tries to level the z-poxy. I ended up sanding the first 2 coats back to wood just because I wasn't satisfied with the surface when I tried to just level the z-poxy.

After sanding back to wood I was really happy with the pore filling, then did the final wash coat of the cut z-poxy applie with the cloth. I take it this is the 'seal' coat under the final finishing coats. I also love the way it pops the grain. Anyway, I'm trying to level with 400 grit but there's too many little tiny imperfections in the surface. I'm afraid to go down to something like 220 grit because I'm afraid I'll sand thru the epoxy to the wood. Not having much experience in 'fine finishing' I'm wondering if I'm trying to be a little too perfect here. I was really careful applying with the cloth trying to get as even a surface as possible.

So after sanding this wash coat, should the surface be absolutely mirror like, or will the finishing coats tend to even the surface. I'm just talking tiny imperfections that you can't really feel.. just sort of see with reflected light.

Also, I'm planning on using em6000 right over this with no other type of shellac seal coat or anything. Sound ok?

Thanks for any advice.
Kyle

Sep 08, 09 | 7:21 am
Hugh

Total Topics: 16
Total Posts: 309
It's hard to get filler to where it is just filler, especially with 400. I'd try 320. The mirror look right after sanding doesn't come til the very end, after 2000 or micromesh. You should have a level surface before then, though.

Sep 08, 09 | 8:48 am
Kyle

Total Topics: 18
Total Posts: 45
'Mirror' is probably the wrong adjective. What I thought I'd get after the wash coat was a flat as glass surface...just like the bare wood, but it was ever so slightly orange peeled... that is hard to take out with 400. What I need to do is go down to 320, and if it sands thru, just do it over again.

Sep 08, 09 | 9:15 am
Hugh

Total Topics: 16
Total Posts: 309
Hand sanding 320 carefully shouldn't go through epoxy. Should, of course, being the critical word. 220 will go to wood.

Sep 08, 09 | 9:37 am
Kyle

Total Topics: 18
Total Posts: 45
Yep...320 took out the orange peel without going back to wood. Leaves a dull surface that's easy to spot any pores that aren't completely filled (little glossy spots).

I tried to hand buff out the dull surface with a clean cloth before moving on to the water based lacquer spray coats, but this does not leave a evenly shiny surface. Should I have just left the surface dull? At this point I'm about ready to sand it back to wood and just apply a shellac coat over the filled pores.

Reason I ask is I found a pictoral of spray finishing water based lacquer and the directions state to sand with 320 or 400 in between coats to a uniformily dull surface to remove orange peel.... then to continue with following spray coats. Are the subsequent coats sprayed over the dull surface without shining up?

Sep 17, 09 | 4:22 am
Hugh

Total Topics: 16
Total Posts: 309
I'm not entirely sure what you are asking, but scuff sanding is usually to get the next coat to stick. It's not to get a particular look. Buffing with a cloth is usually one of the very final steps.

Sep 17, 09 | 6:28 am
Kyle

Total Topics: 18
Total Posts: 45
What my concern is... and this just goes with my total inexperience with fine finishing.. when you sand inbetween coats - you dull the surface. Do you apply subsequent coats over a dulled surface? Will that impact the final result, or will the new coats burn in sufficiently.

I know, probably a stupid question, but I have zero experience with this kind of finishing.

Sep 17, 09 | 7:28 am
Hugh

Total Topics: 16
Total Posts: 309
You do apply subsequent coats over scuffed finish. The next coat will fill scratches made by 400 grit sandpaper.
Bill called finishing the Achilles' Heel with good reason.

Sep 17, 09 | 7:51 am
Kyle

Total Topics: 18
Total Posts: 45
Lol... you got that right! Thanks for the help Hugh.

Sep 17, 09 | 8:27 am
Adaboy

Total Topics: 64
Total Posts: 509
I'm guessing the scuffed or "toothed" surface helps the next coat adhere better to the previous coat (compared to how it would adhere to a "shiny", more level surface). It increases the surface area for adhesion.

Nov 12, 09 | 10:05 am
RayRay

Total Topics: 21
Total Posts: 190
Kyle, I'm no expert by any means...but I've re-read Kathy's lean on the finish for the '09 Size 5 she did with the 6000...(Is THAT the "Tut" you were following?) and she used a couple coats of Zinsser Seal Coat Shellac (It's a 2 lb cut of wax free shellac) over the thinned Zpoxy wash to fill the tiny imperfections you are talking about..I know a finisher who shoots A LOT of 6000 and he swears by this addition...I've developed an alergy to lacquer...I intend to follow his and Kathy's lead in this respect when I start using the 6000 in the spring...their finishes are pretty darn good IMHO and I THINK every step counts toward a good result!
In their finishing methods a very light hand in sanding is a must..but, small "Sand thru's" are not a real problem if they occur and can be repaired easily...(If there IS such a term for us) anyway..here's the part I was refering to if you missed it...scroll down on this page to her entry of Friday, July 24th 2009....Good Luck! :)

http://home.comcast.net/~kathymatsushita/moreprojects/htmlpages/five30.html

Nov 12, 09 | 10:07 pm
Bill Cory

Total Topics: 158
Total Posts: 3584
Man, Kathy sure does a great job, doesn't she?

Nov 13, 09 | 4:27 am
RayRay

Total Topics: 21
Total Posts: 190
Bill, She seems to have it figured out huh?...at least her results are REALLY spectactular....She is a VERY gracious Lady as well...more than willing to answer questions...and I'm not bashful when it comes to this crazy finishing process...I'm going to HAVE to use these water based products and I can sure use all the help I can get! :)

I'm getting excited now...my Kids finished the 12 X 20 shop area they created for me lasy weekend...I have to finish the wiring and I' ready to try to put it together...don't REALLY know what to DO with all the room, or how to best arrange it, but it'll be fun trying to figure it all out!!

Ray

Nov 13, 09 | 5:52 am
dmorg

Total Topics: 3
Total Posts: 10
RayRay,

If you take a look at the OLF site under the video section, Todd Stock did a 3 part video tutorial on pore filling via Z-poxy. I have followed his methodology and it has lead to a really hassle free result. Additionally, applying the z-poxy to the neck via a Nitrile Glove has cut down my angst considerably.

Dave

Dec 02, 09 | 3:40 am
RayRay

Total Topics: 21
Total Posts: 190
Thanks for the info Dave..:)

Dec 08, 09 | 6:19 pm
keith

Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 2
Hey guys, I'm new here and am looking for a good book with a concentration of the latest finishing techniques. This is the area in which I am utterly ignorant. Matter of fact, thats the scariest part of the build for me. Thanks for your reccomendations, y'all.

Dec 11, 09 | 10:09 am
Kevin Sjostrand

Total Topics: 84
Total Posts: 981
Keith,
SteMac's finishing book can't be beat. Check it out on their site. It will help to take some of the "scary" out of what I now think is one of the most fun parts of the building process.......

Kevin

Dec 12, 09 | 5:44 am
Ken Hundley

Total Topics: 40
Total Posts: 2169
I have their book....it is an excellent resource. It's even more helpful if you actually do what they tell you too. (Don't ask)

Dec 12, 09 | 9:09 am



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