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LMI 1st Timer Questions
Author
Post
Norman

Total Topics: 2
Total Posts: 26
Bill: I am reviewing your book, watching Robbie O'Brien's DVD and have some beginner questions in connection with my recently received LMI Classical Serviced kit.

In Robbie's dvd he says the finished sides are 1.8mm thick, mine are .094. I'm not concerned but there is quite a discrepancy. Any comments?

The classical has a spanish heel which, I believe requires me to do my taper before I attach the heel and the end cap, or can I attach the end cap then trim it down when I reduce the width of the sides?

Does the taper of the back begin right at the narrowest point of the waist?
And I should follow Robbie's 1mm offset in that angle trim?

The serviced neck is cut approx. 15mm onn the bottom and 5.1cm on the top. I assume I am supposed to square the cut making it even at the top with the 15mm at the bottom?

I appreciate any responses. Once I get started I should be ok. I have built a lot of furniture, wall cabinets and the such over the years with no plans, using plans and a dvd sure causes a lo9t of questions.

Jul 26, 08 | 4:01 pm
Norman

Total Topics: 2
Total Posts: 26
Bill: Another question, where did you get the microplane shown in your book?

Jul 26, 08 | 4:03 pm
Bill Cory

Total Topics: 158
Total Posts: 3584
Hi Norm -- Sorry, but since my book doesn't address classicals at all, and I've not built one, I don't feel qualified to give you any real answers ...

Side thickness -- Robbie would be able to answer that.
Spanish heel, taper of the back, classical neck -- ditto

Microplane -- Hey, I can answer that! Bought it at Woodcraft -- also available on their website.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

One thing I should emphasize: Follow one set of instructions without mixing them. Everything you do affects almost everything else, and kit parts are often made with one construction system and technique in mind. This applies to all guitar kits.

Bill

Jul 26, 08 | 5:02 pm
llajoy

Total Topics: 6
Total Posts: 295
Norman, are you sure both your measurements are in millimeters? The .094 sounds more like an inch measurement, .094 millimeters would be less than a tenth of a millimeter or about the thickness of a piece of paper? Where as 0.094 inch = 2.3876 millimeter, thick enough to work down to the 1.8 mm that Robbie recommends.

I'll think about how I handled the questions you have when I built my LMII classical kit and post more info later.

Good luck.
Lance.


Jul 26, 08 | 5:35 pm
llajoy

Total Topics: 6
Total Posts: 295
Norman,

"The classical has a spanish heel which, I believe requires me to do my taper before I attach the heel and the end cap, or can I attach the end cap then trim it down when I reduce the width of the sides?" I'm assuming you are talking about the taper of the heel from neck down, not based on the sides. I did most of the shaping before assembling the sides etc. On this kit, the end cap is part of the back so you don't want to do a lot of shaping after you connect the back.

"The serviced neck is cut approx. 15mm onn the bottom and 5.1cm on the top. I assume I am supposed to square the cut making it even at the top with the 15mm at the bottom?" Basically here you are talking about the amount of material between the "neck" and "neck block". What I did was cut the sides at an angle and fit them into the tapered slaots. The extra material makes the neck stronger. You will need to make the slot wider, I used sand paper on a scraper.

I'm still thinking about the other question. Feel free to wait for more posts, their are other ways to do things and I like many of the ones I read.

Lance.

Jul 26, 08 | 5:50 pm
llajoy

Total Topics: 6
Total Posts: 295
Normam,

I took a look at the LMII classical I built and the side taper starts about 1 inch before the center of the waist.

One other thing I should mention; if the neck is Spanish Cedar, you will want to wear a dust mask when sanding. Spanish Cedar is a know allergen and irritant, I skipped the dust mask the first time I worked the neck and wound up with a 3 day migraine.

Lance.

Jul 27, 08 | 3:27 am
Norman

Total Topics: 2
Total Posts: 26
In three days I have managed to contour my sides, attach the tail block and shape my spanish heel. Next step is shaping the ends of the top bout to fit into the heel. (This is a classical guitar so a little different from a steel string.

Bill, the micro planer from Woodcraft is the perfect answer. Great tool.

I do have a few questions, I would like opinions on. In Bogdanovich's book he shellacs the heel block and tail block. Do others do this?

My top and back are up to 3mm thick so need to sand down to 2.5mm. Also my sides are between 2.8 - 3mm, so they need to be reduced to 1.8mm. That is tough sanding on a pre-bent side.

I now realize the problem with pre-bent sides. They are harder to contour, reduce in width and sand or plane to depth. If I do another in the future I would consider bending my own.

When I get to radiusing the braces, I will have several questions but will save them for now. I am planning on 25' for the top and 15' for the bottom. Are these right?

I enjoy everyones feedback on just about every topic.

Jul 29, 08 | 12:15 pm
Ken Hundley

Total Topics: 40
Total Posts: 2169
Hey Norman, welcome......I am not sure you really need to worry abou the thickness of the sides. They will have a minimal impact on the sound of the guitar, and may help make a stronger, more stable sound box being thicker. I believe that most people concern themselves with thickness prior to bending, as it has an impact on how well the wood is bent. If it is already bent, I'd leave it alone....the toughest part that would be affected by the thickness of the sides is already past you.

Jul 30, 08 | 10:07 am
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262
Like Ken H. mentioned there is no need to thin the sides at this point. Which plan are you building? Most classicals only have enough contour on the top and back to prevent the an optical illusion of a concave appearance after the finish is applied -- 15' and 25' contours sound absolutely off base to me.

Ken

www.kennethmichaelguitars.com

Jul 30, 08 | 10:42 am
Norman

Total Topics: 2
Total Posts: 26
Ken: Having no experience at guitar kit building I am drawing my conclusions piecemeal from the forum and any other place I can. I am reading through a couple of classical guitar building books and trying to gain knowledge.

What do you suggest as an appropriate radius? I have reduced the thickness of the top to 2.50mm and will do the bottom tomorrow.

Thanks for everyone's inhput. As a novice I really appreciate all the help I can get.

Norm

Jul 30, 08 | 12:00 pm
Norman

Total Topics: 2
Total Posts: 26
Lance: Thanks for your input last week. I have resolved some of the comments I made with your help. Thanks again.

Norm

Jul 30, 08 | 12:03 pm
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262
Hi Norm who's plan and who's book are you using? If I know that I can give a better answer. Usually with a Torres design the only top brace that is contoured is the relatively heavy strut on the lower bout side of the sound hole. And that is only a very slight amount. Since the back does not effect playability there is much leeway 65' -15' or flat.

Ken

Jul 30, 08 | 12:17 pm
Norman

Total Topics: 2
Total Posts: 26
Ken: I purchased an LMI serviced classical. The Hauser drawings that come with it aren't worth much except for laying out the braces. I also purchased Robbie O'Brien's DVD and have Bogtdanovich's book and Sloanes. I really am trying to concentrate on O'brien and review the other two books to answer questions.

Norm


Jul 30, 08 | 1:25 pm
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262
I have the Brune print for the 1937 Hauser (from LMII) and to my surprise it has much more detail than the typical guitar renderings that are sold by most suppliers. The only indication of any top contour is related to the bow in the bridge --- looking at photos, to me it looks like the bridge developed a bow over the many years from the pull of the string rather then being machined that way ---- that is my opinion. I really want to be careful with my recommendations to you since I have not built that particular model. Have you contacted Robbie O'Brien? It would seem to me that he has an affiliation with LMII and may have provided input and info for the kit. I also think he has a blog for DVD purchasers/owners. Please share what you learn.

Ken

Jul 30, 08 | 6:08 pm
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262
OK --- I took the time to read the documentation that came with my Hauser print, per Brune -- all dimension were taken directly off the actual instrument.

"It may be noted that the top and back drawings do not indicate any arching of the braces. None was observed, althought this may be the result of significant shrinkage due to dryness. Only the bridge was arched 1.5mm across the width, which entirely accounted for any"doming" of the sound board that was observed"

It is my contention that this guitar was built with no contoured bracing just like the "Master Designer -- Torres" would have done it.

Ken

www.kennethmichaelguitars.com

Jul 31, 08 | 8:07 am



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