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shellac formula
Author
Post
Hugh

Total Topics: 16
Total Posts: 310
If you make shellac really thick, flakes and alcohol. will it act as a pore filler?

Jan 17, 08 | 5:36 pm
moocatdog

Total Topics: 35
Total Posts: 302
I'm not the expert here, but I think you'd have to make it awfully thick. I do know that you can wet sand with a shellac sealer and let the resulting slurry of sanding dust and shellac fill the pores. That's what I've being attempting on my guitar and it seems to be working pretty well. That said, I don't know if this method would ever get smooth enough for a glass-like finish. It might, but I don't have enough experience to say one way or another.

George :-)

Jan 27, 08 | 3:44 pm
jhowell

Total Topics: 37
Total Posts: 676
With a little practice, epoxy makes a really good pore filler. I'm using Z-poxy (PT-40) finishing resin and I like it. Once the pores are filled, they just don't shrink back. Mix small quantities, maybe a quarter tea spoon at a time as two or three table spoons will do the whole guitar. Use a squeegee to move it around across the grain and physically pushing it into the pores, then squeegee off at 45 degrees to the grain from both directions. Old credit cards work as do the orange Elmers plastic sqeegees in the automotive sections of most of the big boxes. Press really firmly and don't leave any just sitting on the top. Sand down after 24 hours. Two or three go-arounds and the wood is filled. Some people use a 50% mix of epoxy and alcohol to pop the wood color prior to a finish, but I prefer shellac for this. I don't think that I'd put shellac on an instrument at a higher concentration than a 2# cut (2 lbs of shellac flakes in a gallon of alcohol).

This takes a little practice to get the hang of the squeegeeing and I used a piece of mahogany veneer from Home Depot and brushed up on my pore filling as I was waiting for glue to dry in other procedures.

Jan 27, 08 | 5:37 pm
SteveCourtright

Total Topics: 1
Total Posts: 81
I think you would be disappointed using Shellac as a pore filler. It will shrink considerably as the solvent evaporates and you will have to do many, many additional applications. There may be other problems like crazing or cracking, but I have never tried it for the above reason. I am not aware of anyone using shellac to fill pores on guitars or furniture, for that matter.

Jan 28, 08 | 6:35 am
Bill Cory

Total Topics: 158
Total Posts: 3584
There is a technique for using shellac to fill pores that's been around along time. Robbie O'Brien covers it in his Finishing DVD.

Basically, you pour about a quarter-sized pool of shellac on the surface you want to fill, get some sandpaper (180, 220, 240) and start sanding. It creates a slurry that fills the pores, using the sanding powder as a bonding element.

There's a guy here in our luthers group who makes bouzoukis, mandolins and guitars: He just pours unwaxed shellac on sections of his wood and uses a random orbit sander to accomplish the same task in little time. The pores are filled with wood that matches, and I've seen the surfaces of his body woods several days after filling and before and after finishing: The pore filling is as perfect as (Bob) Taylor's or anyone else's. He uses Target water based finishes (last I heard), and I've handled his instruments and marveled at the flat and glossy finish. (www.herbtaylor.com)

Bill


Jan 28, 08 | 7:43 am
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262
Why not use a product that is engineered and designed to fill pores -- to "fill pores" ??? I guess I don't get it?

Ken

www.kennethmichaelguitars.com

Jan 28, 08 | 9:28 am
Buddy

Total Topics: 1
Total Posts: 19
The standard technique when filling pores with shellac is to use a bit of pumice in with the initial FP layer. It is tedious and difficult, and if you've never done it before you'll end up having to resand glops of uneven pumice out of your finish. Buy a pore filler.

Jan 28, 08 | 11:20 am
Bill Cory

Total Topics: 158
Total Posts: 3584
What, Ken, you mean use a PORE FILLER to FILL PORES? What a novel concept. :-)

Seriously, I usually do -- I tested that shellac technique, and it worked, but I prefer using the real stuff; too bad Enduro is no longer available. Target Coatings' is good, and Wunderfill from Rockler is good. Bartley's is my favorite oil based

Bc

Jan 28, 08 | 2:26 pm
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262
Bill

I may be changing my loyalties again --- I have been testing the Deft and Minwax brushing lacquers and actually applying them with a brush -- for years I sprayed nitro. Deft and Minwax now have nitro compatible brush on sanding sealer/pore filler --- the results are very nice and application is EASY and forgiving --- I forgot about how nice complete chemical burn-in is to level without worry. Working while wearing a chemical mask is the only drawback.

Ken

Jan 28, 08 | 3:05 pm
SteveCourtright

Total Topics: 1
Total Posts: 81
I have tried the pumice and shellac technique. It is horribly difficult and very time consuming. Bill is correct about using shellac and a filler. Fillers will reduce shrinkage of the medium. My comment was directed to shellac alone, of course.

Ken. How about a schedule for using the brushing lacquer? I would be interested in hearing how you do it. I like easy.

Jan 29, 08 | 6:42 am
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262
Steve

I'll get that out asap --- I did not mention that I am also speeding the cure times with halogen lamps, so for now my schedule will be based on that process.

Ken

Jan 29, 08 | 6:56 am
SteveCourtright

Total Topics: 1
Total Posts: 81
Thanks, Ken! No rush on my part. I am just starting my next guitar, which will be a bearclaw spruce top with myrtle sides and back. All of the purfling, backstrip, headplate, rosette etc. will be cocobolo. Finishing is the last thing on my mind right now! Ha Ha!

Jan 30, 08 | 9:14 am
Dennis Weatherly

Total Topics: 73
Total Posts: 651
I ran across this thread on tinting shellac over on the AG Luthier's Corner forum. Down near the bottom is a discussion on pore filling using pumice and shellac. Sounds like there may be a couple of tricks to make it more workable, along with some recommended sources of information.

http://www.acousticguitar.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=003716

Jan 31, 08 | 8:24 pm



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