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Tailblock glue-up
Author
Post
000lover

Total Topics: 71
Total Posts: 332
This is what I saw when I took the clamps off. The neck block is great but the tail block....well se below. I plan on putting a wedge in the tail, so my question is, will this be ok?


Jan 15, 08 | 5:10 pm
Goobie

Total Topics: 13
Total Posts: 132
The amount of gap is ok if you plan to put in a wedge. But you should check to see if your sides remained flat on your work surface and didn't "tip in" or twist on you during glue up. In other words, make sure your sides are 90deg to your worksurface. If not then the guitar could come out wider on top than the back (or vise versa).




Jan 15, 08 | 6:26 pm
canuckplaya

Total Topics: 13
Total Posts: 81
How much of a gap is that? about 2/8 or more? check also to see if your guitar sides have a bow. If the bow is too big you may have a hard time gluing the top and bottom on

Jan 15, 08 | 7:53 pm
Andy

Total Topics: 57
Total Posts: 350
Triple 0, If it was me I'd steam it off and do it again. You won't be the first builder to have have this happen. This is how I'd tackle the fix.

Support the rim_well_ with the tailblock sticking up.

Take a piece of very damp toweling a bit wider than the tailblock and place it over the area.

Get a 2000w iron set on high and place it on the toweling and let it steam for a few seconds. Flip the toweling over on the same spot and repeat. The toweling will get very hot so go slowly and don't over do it.

Keep the toweling damp and apply heat and moisture.

The joint will eventually give. DON'T be tempted to pry at it with chisels or the like or sure as eggs you'll split the sides. Just be patient with the heat / moisture process.

Hope this helps mate.

Jan 15, 08 | 9:16 pm
000lover

Total Topics: 71
Total Posts: 330
Thanks andy! I would rather it be right than deal with a mess later. I guess a hair dryer won't cut it?

Also, I assume the wood will be damp after steaming it. Should I wait a day for it to dry?

Another thing, I don't know that it is that bad. I put the cardboard molding in (not permanently) just to see what it looked like and everything looked ok. The side that is not square at the tail block is raised just slightly.

BUT then again, I am in no hurry. I think I will fix it.

Jan 16, 08 | 6:08 am
Andy

Total Topics: 57
Total Posts: 350
000, If you can see one side is higher, then the rim has most probably got a bit of a twist in it. You could go ahead, but that little twist will also most probably have a flow on effect when get to fitting the top or back [not sure what side it is] and then there will be some more annoying problems.

I found getting my Stewmac dread tricky to get the sides to meet_and_get the blocks in place at the same time. I put some wide masking tape around the whole rim to get the sides to temporarily butt together. Then proceeded as per the video.

Just go slowly at it, if you decided the heat/ steam fix, then the sides and block will need to be left to dry. A hairdryer would help in drying the job after it's unglued.

Jan 16, 08 | 10:16 am
000lover

Total Topics: 71
Total Posts: 330
After reading this, I don't know if I should just go on or not. The gap is no worse than ted's.

here is ted's gap
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7934/3397/400/The%20ends%20after%20glue%20003.jpg

here is his discussion
http://www.kitguitarsforum.com/forum/threads.php?id=582_0_6_320_C

Jan 16, 08 | 11:19 am
davidmor

Total Topics: 34
Total Posts: 567
Matt, the important thing is that the sides are straight and square. If when you cut the sides to length, you didn't get the cut dead straight (I rarely do!) you can have the sides square and flat and have the seam look like that. As an example, the one I am currently building looks exactly like yours simply because I didn't cut the ends straight. Since I put a fairly wide end wedge in, I don't get too carried away with cutting the sides straight at the blocks. As long as the top edge is flat and the blocks are square I am happy. Double check your work and make sure that the top edge is sitting perfectly flat to your work board, and the block is square.

Also, since this is the tail block and not the neck block, it is important to get it straight, but not nearly as critical as the neck block.

My Blog

Jan 16, 08 | 4:14 pm
000lover

Total Topics: 71
Total Posts: 330
This is a few more pics. It shows the nickel under the raised side. Do you think this is raised too much?




Jan 16, 08 | 4:51 pm
Goobie

Total Topics: 13
Total Posts: 132
Hey 000lover,
The fact there is a gap in this case almost has to be a function of your sides not being square with your table. Which means that if your neck seam is tight and there is no gap between the table and your side at the upper bout (which I suspect there isn't) then there is a twist in your side. So while the side might be square to the table in the upper bout it's probably a little under square in the lower bout. In the end, if you choose to go ahead as is, then your guitar top will be slightly asymmetrical in the lower bout. Seeing this as how you are at the beginning stages of this build, I would certainly take a crack at correcting the problem.
When its all finished you'll be happy you did...

Jan 16, 08 | 5:07 pm
gawlicd

Total Topics: 12
Total Posts: 44
I don't want to give any bad advise but won't radius sanding square up and level the body in this case??

Jan 16, 08 | 5:15 pm
davidmor

Total Topics: 34
Total Posts: 567
Those other pictures help a lot. It definately looks like you got the sides a little out of square. gawlicd is somewhat correct as this can be sanded out, but it is better to fix it the right way which would be to re-do the glue up.

That said, I am assuming that the cardboard is sitting flat. Because it is sitting on a storage container, it actually looks like the cardboard could be sagging causing that gap. Set the cardboard on a hard flat surface and then check again. If you still have that gap, I would fix it.

My Blog

Jan 16, 08 | 5:35 pm
livermo1

Total Topics: 20
Total Posts: 65
Speaking from experience,

a clothes iron works really well for softening up the glue.
steam wasn't even needed.

Just be really careful. go slow, check for movement often and don't scorch the wood.

You're not alone in this mistake.

I'll echo what others have recommended in getting it doing it right the first time.

dave

Jan 16, 08 | 6:05 pm
000lover

Total Topics: 71
Total Posts: 330
Yes, the surface is flat in the pic. There is 3/4 " plywood under, you just can't see it well.

I have decided to try the iron thing. I'll let you all know how it goes this weekend.

Thanks for all the good honest advise!

Jan 16, 08 | 6:56 pm
Andy

Total Topics: 57
Total Posts: 350
IMO the wet toweling is insurance against scorching and as [ what looks like ] Titebond isn't water proof you'll get the job done with less fuss. The hot moisture will make the Titebond soften and let go easier that dry heat.

Jan 17, 08 | 9:02 pm
000lover

Total Topics: 71
Total Posts: 330
Well....That was weird. Ironing my guitar was a little stressful, but it is done.

I concentrated on the side that was not square. So, only one side is loose. I guess that's ok? The square side looks strong, but will it dry and stay strong?

Also, I guess I need to sand the glue off? What grit would you recommend?

Jan 18, 08 | 2:01 pm
Ken Hundley

Total Topics: 40
Total Posts: 2169
You should do just fine with 100 grit or similar, but you can start by heating it the same way and wiping some of it off with paper towels or an old rag.

Jan 18, 08 | 7:39 pm
000lover

Total Topics: 71
Total Posts: 330
I re-glued this weekend. I think it turned out ok...







Sorry, I like pictures.

Jan 21, 08 | 5:33 am
Goobie

Total Topics: 13
Total Posts: 132
There you go... Thats looks much better!
Excellent work!

Cheers,
Chad

Jan 21, 08 | 5:47 am



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