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neck block short?
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dcbaisden

Total Topics: 25
Total Posts: 58
on my martin kit the neck block height measures 3.250.
Its a dove tail.
also the sides measure 3.250.
If I attach the block with a 32" higher than the side on the top,
It will come out about a 1/8" short on the bottom.
What would be the fix for this?
I see it 3 ways
one would be to add wood to the block.
2nd would be to trim the back sides down to gain enough.
third would be to get a new block that was the correct length.
Thanks Dave


Apr 17, 07 | 11:50 am
davidmor

Total Topics: 34
Total Posts: 567
The first question I must ask is what is the overall dimension of the sides supposed to be according to the plans (lol, yeah I know Martin..... plans..... oxymoron!) If the sides at the neck are supposed to be 3 1/4" not including the top and back thickness, then you can extend the block by gluing a shim to the back side. I have had to do this on two guitars now. For some reason I have a brain lock when I measure and cut these blocks. I have messed up 2 out of 3 requiring me to shim them. The DVD that comes with the LMI kits actually shows you how to do this because they have you cut the block out of the heel blank wood and that piece is too short.

Of course, if the plans show that the sides are actually 3 1/8" or shorter, you are in good shape.

Page of my blog showing me making a neck block and shimming it

Apr 17, 07 | 12:32 pm
dcbaisden

Total Topics: 25
Total Posts: 58
I was hoping someone who has done one of these kit could supply some info.
I think the bottom sides could be cut down an 1/8" as long as you keep the same taper.
If you keep the top at about 1/32" proud all the measurements should work out for the instullation of the neck,
probably just way ovet thinking this.
Dave

Apr 17, 07 | 12:55 pm
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262
I assume this is a "D" ?? If that is the case the blue print I have from 1983 states 4 7/8" at the tail block location -- that dim includes the thicknes of the top and back. The neck block location is 3 7/8" also including the thickness of the top and back.

Ken

www.kennethmichaelguitars.com

Apr 17, 07 | 1:46 pm
dcbaisden

Total Topics: 25
Total Posts: 58
ken. it a 000-28 1-24.9 scale 14 fret.
I did some calculating and came up with these numbers.
Tail 3.98" high top .120" back .125"= 4.22" (4 1/4) roughly
neck 3.25"high top '" back " = 3.495 (3 1/2) "
not sure where the final dimensions will land.
my measurement is far less than the 1983 D..

Thanks Dave

Apr 17, 07 | 3:40 pm
davidmor

Total Topics: 34
Total Posts: 567
Hmmm, I thought that is what I was doing. You asked for a fix, I gave a fix. Maybe it wasn't a Martin kit, but the solution is the same.

Apr 17, 07 | 4:08 pm
dcbaisden

Total Topics: 25
Total Posts: 58
thanks David. glue a shim. That probably will be the best way to make the correction.
I didnt pick up on the 3 1/8 on the first read.
The other computer I was using had a bunch of pop up comming through the firewall.
Thanks Dave

Apr 17, 07 | 4:38 pm
davidmor

Total Topics: 34
Total Posts: 567
My first post might have been confusing because I mentioned the LMI video even though you are building a Martin kit. What I was trying to say was that the video LMI sends actually has you cut the block short on purpose and then glue a shim. What I meant to convey is that it is not a big deal if the block is short and gluing a shim is a perfectly adequate solution. I figure that if Robert O'Brien does this on purpose when he builds, it must be a generally accepted method of making a neck block. (or tail block for that matter!)

Anyway, good luck and have fun!

My Blog

Apr 17, 07 | 4:55 pm
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262

I just can't help myself here --- I see this as real problem with guitar kits and guitar construction books, DVD’s and plans in general. The authors DO NOT KNOW the real specifications so many of the most important dimensions are just approximations. So what happens is the builder is in the repair and sculpting mode right from the beginning. Can you imagine building a Lexus or a Rolex like that?? Presently, I my view Kinkead comes the closest to supplying the correct dimensions, angles and contours. And most importantly he explains how to get the parts made correctly. Two cents

Ken

Apr 17, 07 | 6:23 pm
Dennis Weatherly

Total Topics: 73
Total Posts: 651
I'm a little surprised that your neck block is too short. On my Martin 000-18 kit (14 fret 25.4" scale) my dovetail neckblock was too long. I cut 1/4" off the bottom and could have removed a bit more.

In your position I would definitely add wood to the bottom of the block.

Apr 17, 07 | 8:49 pm
dcbaisden

Total Topics: 25
Total Posts: 58
Thanks, I'am on a quest to find a piece of rosewood for a shim. The neck block is rosewood so you will probably want the same type of wood?
I looked through LMI and Stewmac cataloge, all I saw was veneer.
Thanks Dave

Apr 18, 07 | 3:55 am
Ken Cierp

Total Topics: 58
Total Posts: 2262
More than likely the neck block is made of Mahogany not Rosewood. Unless you had something special made?

Ken

Apr 18, 07 | 4:34 am
dcbaisden

Total Topics: 25
Total Posts: 58
thnks Ken. Cant think and type at the same time.
It has rosewood veneere on the mahogany neck at the peg head.
probably should have slept an hour or two more.
Dave

Apr 18, 07 | 4:52 am
Bill Cory

Total Topics: 158
Total Posts: 3584
All -- Ken Cierpiowski has a serious point here ... There is a lot of guessing and advising going on here without a lot of factual info.

I would advise all of those with questions to pick up the telephone and call the applicable tech support line for the kit being built.

Alternatively, get a full-size plan: You can find them on the OLF, the MIMF, or through Stewmac or LMI. If you're building a D-28 style Dreadnought, Stewmac's plans are the most adccurate. The plans drawn by Scott Antes are acceptable from LMI, but their printing is inaccurate enough that LMI includes a slip of paper warning you to measure them. I found that my LMI full-size plans were "off" (illustrated sizes vs. notations on those illustrations) by about 8%.

On the Martin style 000-28, call or email John Hall (BluesCreekGuitars.com) -- he provides these kits and can give you the specific measurements you are seeking.

2 more cents
Bill

Apr 18, 07 | 6:26 am
dcbaisden

Total Topics: 25
Total Posts: 58
thanks Bill, I understand the importance of the plans, NOW.
I did talk to John about the block. I have all the measurements written down.
just a little problem (on my part} applying the imformation
It was clear from the beginning there were NO plans.
originally I was looking at three ways to correct this or (in my case) not to get it wrong.. cause if the neck block isnt right then the guitar will not be right .
ITS A KIT. I can build it I know I can.
You guys have been a tremendous help so far.
I put up the actual measurements of the sides and neck block.
With davidmor's comment on the exact measurement I miss that earlier due to a computer problem.
after his second comment it made better sense to me.
I dont expect every thing to be perfect.
I just go back from Woodcraf.
Found a chunk of mahogany close to the same wood grain of the neck block.
Headed to home depo next for a sheet if plywood to build a gobar deck and
A mold.
Thanks Dave




Apr 18, 07 | 9:40 am
blues creek guitars Authorized Martin Repair Ctr

Total Topics: 52
Total Posts: 1011
As you discovered things are often oversized to allow for trimming and truing. The top on a martin is not flat. The math for a 28 foot radius will equate to 1 1/2 degrees.
The slant should be plotted from the sound hole to the neck block . If you don't have a dick you can dp the whole top so you cen take out the fear of the 14th fret hump.
A mold is one of the most valuable tools in building so take your time and be careful as the symetry of the body and neck block positon will be set up from this.
The finish depth of a 000 14 fret is 4 1/8" and to that you take 9/16 off that for the heigth at the neck.
john hall
blues creek guitars

Apr 19, 07 | 1:37 am
Bill Cory

Total Topics: 158
Total Posts: 3584
John / others -- in John's post above, I think there must have been a typo ... the word that my over-zealous censor program removed was d-i-c-k . Makes for sort of a funny sentence ... but for the life of me, I can't figure out what the word should have been ...

Bill

Apr 19, 07 | 5:37 am
dcbaisden

Total Topics: 25
Total Posts: 58
Thanks John, I think I have most off it figured out.
Does it matter where you take the measurement from at the sound hole?
Front , middle, or back ?
Thanks Dave

Apr 19, 07 | 5:06 pm
blues creek guitars Authorized Martin Repair Ctr

Total Topics: 52
Total Posts: 1011
I take it from about the middle. The important thing you need to imagine is the line of the fingerboard as it enters the top. There is a 1 1/2 degree angle to the neck. If the top were dead flat this will creat a 14th fret hump. By creating the angle on the side with the top off you can establish this without taking wood off the top where you need it.
feel free to call me if you need to
john hall

Apr 22, 07 | 4:39 am
dcbaisden

Total Topics: 25
Total Posts: 58
thanks John, i'll give you a call later this week.
Thanks Dave

Apr 22, 07 | 9:32 am



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